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It's probably a good idea to keep something like this on page one so people can easily copy/paste whenever someone new comes in with a new "horror" about this bill.
It's harder doing this in real life because I don't want to fight with my friends/family or make them feel stupid for believing what they have heard.
I'm actually MORE comfortable arguing this stuff with family and friends. I intend to copy the OP, paste it into an email and send it to those members of my family who keep sending me all the ridiculous claims about this bill. (Probably start a family war! lol)
I'm actually MORE comfortable arguing this stuff with family and friends. I intend to copy the OP, paste it into an email and send it to those members of my family who keep sending me all the ridiculous claims about this bill. (Probably start a family war! lol)
LOL.. well.. in the regards to you arguing with your family..I'm glad my post will help you in getting your points across.
The original email charges are in bold and my comments are in CAPS below each of these distortions. I am not really shouting (in CAPS) but in a way I am. This makes me mad, particularly the charges about killing old people.
The bill being referred to is HR 3200 Affordable Health Care Choices -- this is what is being referred to as the House Bill. Of course the bill will be modified before it ever goes to the House lloor, but this version is the one that the email charges refer to.
FIRST OF ALL -- Please note that the first five hundred pages of the bill, or Titles I and II, refer mainly to the new Health Exchanges and the health plans that will offer benefits through these exchanges. There is also language about improvements to Medicare, although you will note that the author of these attacks (anonymous to me) seem to confuse Medicare with private plans.
SO HERE STARTS THE CHARGES -- AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM! Page 22 -- MANDATES the government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure.
NO, ACTUALLY THE LANGUAGE SAYS THAT A STUDY SHOULD BE COMMISSIONED TO DETERMINE -- IN GENERAL -- HOW MANY EMPLOYERS ARE SELF-FUNDING THEIR BENEFITS AND MIGHT WANT TO SHIFT THEIR EMPLOYEES TO THE HEALTH EXCHANGE. NOTHING IN THERE ABOUT AUDITING THE BOOKS.
Page 30 Section 123 -- There will be a Government COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
NOT EXACTLY. AN INDEPENDENT COMMITTEE WILL RECOMMEND THE BENEFITS TO BE OFFERED, JUST LIKE WHAT YOUR EMPLOYER DOES NOW OR YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY -- THERE WILL BE OPPORTUNITIES TO BUY MORE EXPENSIVE OR COMPREHENSIVE PLANS BUT IT WILL BE YOUR CHOICE. FOR HEALTH PLANS THAT OFFER BENEFITS TO INDIVIDUALS WHO BUY THEIR INSURANCE THROUGH THE EXCHANGE, JUST LIKE WITH MEDICARE SUPPLEMENTS NOW, THERE WILL BE A COMMON PACKAGE OF BENEFITS OFFERED SO PEOPLE CAN COMPARE THEIR CHOICES.
Page 29 lines 4-16 -- Your Health Care is RATIONED.
WOW. NOT AT ALL! THIS LANGUAGE SAYS THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN A SET AMOUNT EACH YEAR FOR YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE. RIGHT NOW YOU ALL HAVE MAXIMUM AMOUNTS THAT YOUR INSURANCE WILL PAY ANNUALLY AND THEN YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN. THE NEW LAW WILL PROTECT YOU FROM HAVING TO PAY MORE THAN SET AMOUNTS. YOU SHOULD BE SO LUCKY!!
Page 42 -- The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your Health Care benefits for you. You have no choice.
AGAIN. NOT TRUE. THERE WILL BE CHOICES OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF PLANS YOU CAN BUY. RIGHT NOW IF YOU ARE EMPLOYED YOUR EMPLOYER CHOOSES FOR YOU. IN THE EXCHANGE, ALL KINDS OF PLANS WILL BE OFFERED FOR YOU TO CHOOSE. DID YOU THINK YOU WOULD PERSONALLY BE ABLE TO CHOOSE WHAT SERVICES YOU WANT COVERED AND WHAT YOU DO NOT? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT EXCEPT THROUGH A RIDER?
LOL. turns out that someone else already did a lot of the work I did yesterday..LOL. Thanks for the additional link and additional support to what I put up.
My mother receives excellent care through Medicare. My girlfriend receives excellent care through the VA. Guess it's you who are uninformed. Now shut up and tie your shoes, and stop making things up.
Lets see... Your mother and girlfriend vs my wifes dealings with millions of claims. Yeah, your right, I am uninformed. Two cases is more than millions, I must of skipped that creative math class. /boggle
Old_COld.. do you not have a "network"of doctors in your plans? And should you go OFF the plan ONLY a certain percentage is paid by the insurance company and the DIFFERENCE is paid by the patient.
SWISS system is a PRIVATE system.. fully PRIVATE system.
So..I'm not sure the point you are trying to make.
IN regards to private rooms, when I did have insurance and had my son my insurance company would pay x amount a dollars a day for my room. If I wanted the private room, and my insurance wouldn't cover the private room cost, I was informed by the hospital that I could have a private room if I paid the difference between what the company would pay daily for a public and the actual cost of the private.
All that you are trying to describe exists within the private system right here in the U.S
No TM. Under any of our previous private plans, I did not have a network of doctors.
Let me qualify that...the doctors did have to accept our plan but we never found one that didn't.
Under Medicare, of course we have been refused
The Swiss gentleman was apparently hoping to get at least a semi-private room. I don't even know if our hospitals have wards anymore.
I admitted this was a bit off topic but does go to reading something about certain plans but not everything.....just like what is happening now.
There will also be a PUBLIC option .. an option that is a government option..
OK - now for some straight talk -
First off - the Democratic bill is in some serious trouble in the Congress - Support for the bill - even by Democrats, is falling - and falling quite a bit. One of the reasons for this problem is the "Public Option". At this point, that option has been REMOVED from the House version. There is tremendous opposition to the "Public Option" TM in the Congress - with MANY Democrats opposing it (the Blue Dog Dems).
First off - let's not guarantee anyone that the Dem bill will pass.
Then, there is the GOP bill which WILL GET HEARINGS and a vote
Last, the public option is in serious trouble - and that is a FACT
No TM. Under any of our previous private plans, I did not have a network of doctors.
Let me qualify that...the doctors did have to accept our plan but we never found one that didn't.
The Swiss gentleman was apparently hoping to get at least a semi-private room. I don't even know if our hospitals have wards anymore.
I admitted this was a bit off topic but does go to reading something about certain plans but not everything.....just like what is happening now.
Again.. Old_Cold.. if a Dr. "accepts" your insurance..then they are IN the network. NOt all Dr' sARE in all networks. I met one locally that isn't in my son's AETNA network (or a portion of the network) for whatever reason..
And.. private and semi private rooms are a LUXURY. IF you plan calls for payments of a "private" room then you are paying probably more for a premium that allows for a semi private or private room. I'm sure most of us would all love to be in a private or even semi private room... but you know what.. be grateful you are in a hospital in ANY kind of room and have the cost covered if you are one of the insured. IF you WANT to upgrade to a semi private or private room you have to pay more.
hell.. I'd like to fly first class.. but I'm certainly not going to be able to do that if I only paid for a coach ticket. At least with a coach ticket I get on the plane.
If your trying to find fault with the Swiss system I have pointed to in another thread and your argument is that whatever insurance he purchased in Swiss didn't allow him a semi private or private room.. well that's not really a good argument AGAINST the Swiss system..as the same type exists here in our private system.
First off - the Democratic bill is in some serious trouble in the Congress - Support for the bill - even by Democrats, is falling - and falling quite a bit. One of the reasons for this problem is the "Public Option". At this point, that option has been REMOVED from the House version. There is tremendous opposition to the "Public Option" TM in the Congress - with MANY Democrats opposing it (the Blue Dog Dems).
First off - let's not guarantee anyone that the Dem bill will pass.
Then, there is the GOP bill which WILL GET HEARINGS and a vote
Last, the public option is in serious trouble - and that is a FACT
Where 84% of those surveyed were in SUPPORT of the Public Option!!
BTW.. that pollwas sponsored by FOES to the health care bill. .AND.. the list of those that sponsored that study are right there in that article.
It's in "trouble" because private insurance is AFRAID OF COMPETITION.. PERIOD. God forbid they have to forgo exorbitant CEO salaries so that they can offer lower cost premiums to compete with a premium the public option my charge.
BTW.. those "Blue Dog Dems" all purchased by insurance companies. Olbermann gave them a real lashing the other night on his commentary on MSNBC.. where he STATED FACTS OF PUBLIC RECORD about EACH of those "opposed" to the public plan and how much money they have all recieved from the insurance companies / lobbies etc.
There is a lot of money defeating this bill.. at the end of the day it will come down to this:
What will win.. the TRUTH.. or the LIES
What will win .. WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEST for the nation , or what is best for the INSURANCE COMPANIES.
I pray the truth and what is best for the people wins. It saddens me to think otherwise..
And you better bet I will be VERY vocal and writing my congressman and senators about this bill and anyone that defeats it and succeeds in destroying it will NOT get my vote!
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