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Old 08-14-2009, 09:20 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,168,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "patchwork." If you mean that the system is not a one-size-fits-all system then we need more, not less, patchwork. Health care is a commodity regulate the cost and supply of commodities better than any planned economy ever could. The "semiprivate" part of your criticism makes my point. Get the government out completely and prices will go down and supply will increase so that health insurance will be affordable again, as it once was before government got in on the act.
It's a quote from the linked article by Paul Krugman. If government subsidies were removed from health insurance it would be impossible for patients to pay unless medical costs, including the costs of innovation, collapsed to zero. Health insurance plans will become competitive through the Health Insurance Exchange.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:28 AM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,056,680 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Insurance covers those people who go to doctors. If I never go to the doctor, the premiums are paying for some hypochondriac malingerer to constantly be in the doctor's office, instead of being out in the world earning his keep.
Seriously, my head is going to explode if I keep reading this kind of nonsense. There are lots of people in this country out "earning their keep" at all income levels, who do not have access to employer-sponsored insurance. This is a huge problem! Linking insurance with employment benefits makes your access to health care very tenuous, whether or not you want to admit it.

Quote:
Give me a break. The insurance industry makes a profit--so what? For you leftists profit equals greed. It's that kind of moralistic calculus that made Soviet bloc nations, North Korea, Cuba, China and Viet Nam a living hell for millions upon millions of people. God save us from the self-anointed do-gooders.
It's not profit that's the problem, but it's the worship of profit at all costs that makes you, yes, YOU, so vulnerable, no matter how vigilant you've been about paying your premiums on time and playing by all the rules to maintain your access to coverage. My own insurer is well known in the industry for dropping any subscriber who might actually need the coverage for which he's paid. And, if that happens to you, good luck finding any other insurer to take over, regardless of your ability to pay the premiums.

Wake up, ladies and gentlemen! Our current health care system typically only works for those who rarely have occasion to need it.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:36 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,957,213 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
It's not profit that's the problem, but it's the worship of profit at all costs that makes you, yes, YOU, so vulnerable, no matter how vigilant you've been about paying your premiums on time and playing by all the rules to maintain your access to coverage. My own insurer is well known in the industry for dropping any subscriber who might actually need the coverage for which he's paid. And, if that happens to you, good luck finding any other insurer to take over, regardless of your ability to pay the premiums.

Wake up, ladies and gentlemen! Our current health care system typically only works for those who rarely have occasion to need it.
Then the only role government should have is reactive arbitration. That is, if the contract between the consumer and the insurance is violated by the insurer, then the government can arbitrate and force the insurer to honor its contract.

If the consumer goes into a contract knowing there are conditions that will drop them by the insurer, and still goes with the contract then they are responsible for their decision.

Yet this should be a state issue, not a federal one and each state can decide how to best achieve their goals for protecting the responsible residents.

This is not the federal governments responsibility or duty. Leave it to the states.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,663,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb4browns View Post
Why do Dems insist on legislating morality?
I think the Republicans cornered the market on that long ago.............
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,663,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Nope this is the same false choice Obama is peddling and it ain't selling. Republicans favor a private solution to the problem.

Yeah, and the foxes favor unfettered access to the henhouse.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:48 AM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,056,680 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Then the only role government should have is reactive arbitration. That is, if the contract between the consumer and the insurance is violated by the insurer, then the government can arbitrate and force the insurer to honor its contract.

If the consumer goes into a contract knowing there are conditions that will drop them by the insurer, and still goes with the contract then they are responsible for their decision.

Yet this should be a state issue, not a federal one and each state can decide how to best achieve their goals for protecting the responsible residents.

This is not the federal governments responsibility or duty. Leave it to the states.
Well, at least you agree with me that there is a problem. That's a start.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,663,697 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone View Post
Do we need to make some major improvements to our healthcare system? Yes we do, but we still have the best system in the world. There is no where else in the world that I'd like to receive care.

We need to make improvement but we simply can't go socialist. Furthermore, healthcare is not an entitlement.
Neither is police protection or national defense.

Quote:
I'm sick of being told that I have to provide for people that will not work, will not take any responsibility for themselves, people that feel it MY DUTY to take care of them because I'm a privlaged white male then with the same breath they scream about how evil I am and how I've oppressed them.

F*** You.

I owe no one anything.

Such hostility from you, my right-wing friend. Two questions for you. Would you hire some of these people who will not work or take responsibility for themselves? After all, you are privileged and have resources. Also, would you be welcoming to these folks if they wanted to move near or into your neighborhood?

Just asking.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:20 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,957,213 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Well, at least you agree with me that there is a problem. That's a start.
I think most people see there are problems with the system, but the purposed solutions are to be honest contrary to every purpose of a free society. Ive read many of the purposed bills and I must say, I never thought I would see such measures in our government. It really is scary to read some of their plans. People complained about the patriot act and that is childs play to some of the invasions that these purposed bills are planning.

Many who are in extreme defense atm and causing a stir are not doing so because they think the system is working perfect. They do so because the solutions are tyrannical and that is not what we stand for as a country. These proposals are akin to selling ones soul to gain something. It isn't worth it at any level.

There are problems throughout the entire system right down to even properly identifying the actual issues. Biased statistics are used to establish solutions to problems that do not exist. Claims are being made on research that is poorly constructed and lacks any due diligence.

We need to find solutions, but taking from the haves to give to the have not is not a solution. We need to think practically, efficiently and reasonably if we are to find and attend to the problem. Right now, the issue is swirling in politics and it will admit no cure with those solutions, it will only promote suffering and injustice.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:37 AM
 
5,747 posts, read 12,056,680 times
Reputation: 4512
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone View Post
Do we need to make some major improvements to our healthcare system? Yes we do, but we still have the best system in the world. There is no where else in the world that I'd like to receive care.

We need to make improvement but we simply can't go socialist. Furthermore, healthcare is not an entitlement.

I'm sick of being told that I have to provide for people that will not work, will not take any responsibility for themselves, people that feel it MY DUTY to take care of them because I'm a privlaged white male then with the same breath they scream about how evil I am and how I've oppressed them.

F*** You.

I owe no one anything.
Let me be perfectly clear: if you are benefiting from an employer-sponsored health care plan, you are tremendously vulnerable to losing that coverage. And, if you are unable to replace lost coverage, your days as a "privileged" white male are numbered.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,088 posts, read 5,357,374 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
You haved defined GOP ideology in a nutshell. **** everybody else, it is all about me, and they try to justify it by saying things like "We were never meant to be equal" or "God did not make us equal". They see absolutely no problem in building wealth by exploiting another human being, after all, nobody is forcing them to work for their companies and they are improving their workers lives by "creating jobs" Wow! It is a "free market" after all! These are supposed to be the followers of Jesus
Yes this is (unstated) portion of the GOP philosophy. . . God did not intend everyone to be "equal", God gives riches and powerful to the few, whom he has blessed. . . Saw a documentary about "The Family" on K street in D.C., that stated that this is the "hidden" agenda, and outrageous as it sounds, it certainly does "explain" a lot too. . . .
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