Liberals more violent than Conservatives going by history (environmentalist, Obama, how much)

[RobertGibbs]

Originally Posted by groar

i listed them on the last page. besides the church shooting, they are all since obama took office.

the murder of dr. tiller.
the pittsburgher who shot 5 policemen.
the holocaust museum shooting.

if i go back 15 years or so i could list many, many more.

i've asked before for an example of someone on the left doing something similar in the last 30 years. so far no one has been able to give me one.

you can't tie any of that to any particular party. And for the record 3 doesn't equate to numerous.

[Haaziq]

Originally Posted by Tolstoy1

Too bad the left is so backwards that it believes that their leaders are God and that his will is the final say regarding death and destruction

Pffft. I was taking you serious then you go and say something ridiculous like that.

And for what it's worth, I don't believe anybody or anything is worthy of worship.

[Rggr]

Originally Posted by groar

you're right about property destruction from the left, but i really don't think that's on the same level as going out and shooting people.

i don't recall people on the left going out and shooting or killing or hurting people while bush was in power for 8 years. 8 months into obama's term and we have 7 people dead in politically-motivated shootings.

i don't think that this violence is characteristic of the vast majority of the right (although there are people in this thread condoning some of it, which i think is sick). but the fact is, this element exists on the right and it doesn't seem to on the left (at present). people are right to be worried about the president's safety when people are bringing guns to his speeches, no matter what side they're on. but people on the left just didn't do that when bush was president, so discussing the assassination of mckinley or whatever and saying that the left is the violent side is sort of a moot point.

I'm not going to get into debating that point because I really don't care what the political leanings are of a violent criminal. They're a violent criminal and should be locked up and have their voting privileges removed.

[Tolstoy1]

Originally Posted by Haaziq

Pffft. I was taking you serious than you go and say something ridiculous like that.

And for what it's worth, I don't believe anybody or anything is worthy of worship.

It was as truthful as what you said

[groar]

Originally Posted by RobertGibbs

you can't tie any of that to any particular party. And for the record 3 doesn't equate to numerous.

um.

tiller was killed by a pro-life activist
the pittsburgh shooter said he did it because "obama was going to take his guns away." he also happened to be a registered republican, not that being a republican is the end all be all of being right-wing.
the holocaust museum shooter was a birther and was on the far right.

and 3 politically motivated shooting incidents in the space of less than 3 months is really quite a lot.

again, give me an example of a left-winger committing a politically motivated violent crime in the past 30 years.

[nvxplorer]

Originally Posted by ELOrocks17

Yeah...just look at how they love abortion. Look how upset they were when "Tiller the baby killer" was given justice.

You owe me a new irony meter.

[Pug Life]

I'm writing this as a Libertarian/Republican who has never voted for a Democrat except in one election when my sister worked for a campaign against the Governator.

Originally Posted by twowolves

Why is the MSM always so hysterical about law-abiding gun owners at political events? History suggests it's liberals the Secret Service should be watching.

Except you clearly have no understanding of history, read below for my proof:

Actor/Activist John Wilkes Booth shot President Abraham Lincoln on April 14, 1865, because he was opposed to Lincoln’s Republican war policies.

A Southern Sympathizer who was opposed to abolition. Booth was hardly a liberal.

Charles J. Guiteau, who shot President James Garfield in 1881, had a long relationship with a utopian commune called The Oneida Community, where free love and communal child-rearing were practiced.

Guiteau was a religious fanatic...sounds more like the Neo-Cons.

Leon Czolgosz, who killed President William McKinley in 1901, was a socialist/anarchist who was captivated upon hearing a speech by radical socialist Emma Goldman the year he shot McKinley. If memory serves, Goldman’s inspirational speech had something to do with “hope” and “change.”

He was an ANARCHIST. If anything, he's more in line with Libertarians and Fiscally conservative Republicans than the Democrats who wish to control our lives.

John Shrank, who shot and wounded Teddy Roosevelt in 19212, seemed to have no political beliefs other than a strong opposition to third terms.

He was also a religious wackjob who was institutionalized. Again, contradictory to your original point.

Giuseppe Zangara, who narrowly missed shooting President-elect Franklin Roosevelt in 1933. Earlier, Zangara had plotted to kill Republican President Herbert Hoover, because both Hoover and Roosevelt were “capitalists.”

Zangara was unhinged, and was possibly hired by Frank Nitti (Capone's far more successful successor) to murder the Mayor of Chicago who was working to fight organized crime. Either way, FDR is a hero to the Obama supporters, as his name has been invoked on numerous occasions, so they wouldn't exactly support his murder!

Lee Harvey Oswald, who shot President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963, was a stone-cold Communist ever since he read a Communist pamphlet about Julius and Ethel Rosenberg as a teenager.

Kennedy is a liberal icon, Oswald was acting on orders from either the Mafia, CIA or Soviets. Clearly, another point that goes against your original hypothesis.

Sirhan Sirhan, who shot Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Robert Kennedy on June 5, 1968, was a Palestinian extremist angry with Kennedy for his support of Israel.

Um, RFK is as much of an icon to the Liberal movement as anyone. Liberals support Israel (pretty much all Americans do), just ask Barney Frank! Seriously, since nearly all the Jews serving in Congress are Liberals, why wouldn't they support Israel?



So basically what the OP is saying is "I'm completely ignorant and unable to understand pretty simple concepts", and that's about it.

Timothy McVeigh, a white, American soldier who was registered as a Republican, a member of the NRA and a strong opponent of Federal programs, murdered 168 people, including women and children. So what was your point?

[Pug Life]

Originally Posted by Tolstoy1

Woodrow Wilson (WW1) was a Democrat. FDR (WW2) was a democrat.
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam) was a democrat. Slick Willy involved us in a bombing campaign in Kosovo.....

Yeah, those peace loving leftwingers...

Please, know your history first.

America was brought into WWI and WWII because we were attacked. Both wars started years before we were forced to join in.

Vietnam was a major blunder of more than one adminstration (Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ and Nixon)

1 November 1955 — President Eisenhower (a Republican) deploys the Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the ARVN (South Vietnamese Army). This marks the official beginning of American involvement in the war as recognized by the Vietnam Veterans Memorial

It would be another 8 years before LBJ was president.

Pointing fingers without knowing what you are pointing at just hurts your argument. There are facts you can use to discredit liberals, but these stretches of the truth only make you seem ignorant or delusional.

If you want to discredit Liberals, just use JFK or Carter's presidencies...they are FULL of blunders.

[Gary Siete]

These are the types of right wing nutbars that the anti-Obama hysteria will embolden...

SPLCenter.org: Terror From the Right
(1995-2005)

- Oklahoma City Bombing - 168 dead
- abortion office bombings/ abortion doctors killed
- gay bashing/killings
- Charles Ray Polk - plotting to blow up IRS office
- Oklahoma Constitutional Militia leader Willie Ray Lampley, his wife Cecilia and another man, John Dare Baird, are arrested as they prepare explosives to bomb numerous targets, including the Southern Poverty Law Center, gay bars and abortion clinics.
- tax protester Joseph Martin Bailie arrested in plot to blow up IRS office
- Peter Kevin Langan, Aryan Republican Army, charged in connection with a string of 22 bank robberies
- Antigovernment activist Ray Hamblin is charged with illegal possession of explosives after authorities find 460 pounds of the high explosive Tovex, 746 pounds of ANFO blasting agent and 15 homemade hand grenades
- Larry Wayne Shoemake kills one black man and wounds seven other people, including a reporter, during a racist shooting spree in a black neighborhood in Jackson, Miss.
- Two leaders of the Militia-at-Large of the Republic of Georgia, Robert Edward Starr iii and William James McCranie Jr., are charged with manufacturing shrapnel bombs for distribution to militia members.
- Twelve members of an Arizona militia group called the Viper Team are arrested on federal conspiracy, weapons and explosive charges after allegedly surveilling and videotaping government buildings as potential targets.
- Atlanta Olympics bombing linked to 1997-1998 bombings of an Atlanta-area abortion clinic, an Atlanta gay bar and a Birmingham, Ala., abortion facility. Suspect Eric Robert Rudolph — a reclusive North Carolina man tied to the anti-Semitic Christian Identity theology
- Washington State Militia leader John Pitner and seven others are arrested on weapons and explosives charges in connection with a plot to build pipe bombs for a confrontation with the federal government.
- Three "Phineas Priests" — racist and anti-Semitic Christian Identity terrorists who feel they've been called by God to undertake violent attacks — are charged in connection with two bank robberies and bombings at the two banks, a Spokane newspaper and a Planned Parenthood office.
- Seven members of the Mountaineer Militia are arrested in a plot to blow up the FBI's national fingerprint records center, where 1,000 people work
- Militia activist Brendon Blasz is arrested in Kalamazoo, Mich., and charged with making pipe bombs and other illegal explosives. Prosecutors say Blasz plotted to bomb the federal building in Battle Creek, the IRS building in Portage, a Kalamazoo television station and federal armories.
- Three Ku Klux Klan members are arrested in a plot to blow up a natural gas refinery outside Fort Worth, Texas
- Florida police arrest Todd Vanbiber, a member of the neo-Nazi National Alliance's Tampa unit and the shadowy League of the Silent Soldier, after he accidentally sets off pipe bombs he was building, blasting shrapnel into his own face. He is accused of plotting to use the bombs on the approach to Disney World to divert attention from a planned string of bank robberies.
- After a cache of explosives stored in a tree blows up near Yuba City, Calif., police arrest Montana Freemen supporter William Robert Goehler. Investigators looking into the blast arrest two Goehler associates, one of them a militia leader, after finding 500 pounds of petrogel explosives — enough to level three city blocks
- Antigovernment Sons of Liberty extremists set fire to the IRS office in Colorado Springs, Colo., causing $2.5 million in damage and injuring a firefighter.
- Militiaman Bradley Playford Glover and another heavily armed antigovernment activist are arrested before dawn near Fort Hood, in central Texas, just hours before they planned to invade the Army base and slaughter foreign troops they mistakenly believed were housed there. In the next few days, five other people are arrested in several states for their alleged roles in the plot to invade a series of military bases where the group believes United Nations forces are massing for an assault on Americans.
- A federal grand jury in Arkansas indicts three men on racketeering charges for plotting to overthrow the government and create a whites-only Aryan People's Republic, which they intend to grow through polygamy.
- An off-duty police officer is killed and a nurse terribly maimed when a nail-packed, remote-control bomb explodes outside a Birmingham, Ala., abortion facility
- Three men with links to a Ku Klux Klan group are arrested near East St. Louis, Ill., on weapons charges.
- Three members of the North American Militia of Southwestern Michigan are arrested on firearms and other charges. Prosecutors say the men conspired to bomb federal buildings, a Kalamazoo television station and an interstate highway interchange, kill federal agents, assassinate politicians and attack aircraft at a National Guard base
- Three men are charged with conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction after threatening President Clinton and other federal officials with biological weapons.
- South Carolina militia member Paul T. Chastain is charged with weapons, explosives and drug violations after allegedly trying to trade drugs for a machine gun and enough C-4 plastic explosive to demolish a five-room house
- Officials arrest Alabama plumber Chris Scott Gilliam, a member of the neo-Nazi National Alliance, after he attempts to purchase 10 hand grenades from an undercover federal agent.
- Infuriated that neo-Nazi leader Matt Hale has just been denied his law license by Illinois officials, follower Benjamin Nathaniel Smith begins a three-day murder spree across Illinois and Indiana, shooting to death a black former college basketball coach and a Korean doctoral student and wounding nine other minorities.
- Buford Furrow, a former member of the neo-Nazi Aryan Nations who has been living with the widow of slain terrorist leader Bob Mathews, strides into a Jewish community center near Los Angeles and fires more than 70 bullets, wounding three boys, a teenage girl and a woman. He then drives into the San Fernando Valley and kills Filipino-American mailman Joseph Ileto. The next day, Furrow turns himself in, saying he intended to send "a wake-up call to America to kill Jews."
- wo California men, both members of the San Joaquin Militia, are charged with conspiracy in connection with a plot to blow up two 12-million-gallon propane tanks, a television tower and an electrical substation in hopes of provoking an insurrection.
- Donald Beauregard, head of a militia coalition known as the Southeastern States Alliance, is charged with conspiracy, providing materials for a terrorist act and gun violations in connection with a plot to bomb energy facilities and cause power outages in Florida and Georgia.
- Immigration attorney Richard Baumhammers goes on a rampage in the Pittsburgh area against non-whites, killing five people and critically wounding a sixth. Baumhammers had recently started a tiny white supremacist group, the Free Market Party, that demanded an end to non-white immigration into the United States.
- White supremacists Leo Felton and girlfriend Erica Chase are arrested following a foot chase that began when a police officer spotted them trying to pass counterfeit bills
- A North Carolina sheriff's deputy pulls over Steve Anderson, a former "colonel" in the Kentucky Militia, on a routine traffic stop as he heads home to Kentucky from a white supremacist gathering in North Carolina. Anderson, who has issued violent threats against officials for months via an illegal pirate radio station and is an adherent of racist Christian Identity theology, pulls out a semi-automatic weapon and peppers the deputy's car with bullets before driving his truck into the woods
- Jewish Defense League chairman Irving David Rubin and a follower, Earl Leslie Krugel, are arrested in California and charged with conspiring to bomb the offices of U.S. Rep. Darrel Issa (R-Calif.) and the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City. Krugel said the jdl needed "to do something to one of their filthy mosques."
- Neo-Nazi National Alliance member Michael Edward Smith is arrested after a car chase in Nashville, Tenn., that began when he was spotted sitting in a car with a semi-automatic rifle pointed at Sherith Israel Pre-School,
- The leader of a militia-like group known as Project 7 and his girlfriend are arrested after an informant tells police the group is plotting to kill judges and law enforcement officers in order to kick off a revolution.
- agents arrest North Carolina Klan leader Charles Robert Barefoot Jr. for his role in an alleged plot to blow up the Johnson County Sheriff's Office, the sheriff himself and the county jail.
- Tampa area podiatrist Robert J. Goldstein is arrested...the most significant discovery is a three-page plan detailing plans to "kill all 'rags'" at the Islamic Society of Pinellas County.
-a ntigovernment extremist Larry Raugust arrested at a rest stop in Idaho, charged with 16 counts of making and possessing destructive devices, including pipe bombs and pressure-detonated booby traps.
- Matt Hale, the national leader of the neo-Nazi World Church of the Creator (WCOTC) charged with soliciting the murder of the federal judge in the case, Joan Humphrey Lefkow,
- James D. Brailey, a convicted felon who once was selected as "governor" of the state of Washington by the antigovernment Washington Jural Society, is arrested after a raid on his home turns up a machine gun, an assault rifle and several handguns. One informant tells the FBI that Brailey was plotting to assassinate Gov. Gary Locke, both because Locke was the state's real governor and because he was Chinese-American.
- Federal agents in Pennsylvania arrest David Wayne Hull, imperial wizard of the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and an adherent of the anti-Semitic Christian Identity theology, alleging that Hull has arranged to buy hand grenades to blow up abortion clinics
- Federal agents arrest antigovernment extremist David Roland Hinkson in Idaho and charge him with trying to hire an assassin on two occasions in 2002 and 2003 to murder a federal judge, a prosecutor and an IRS agent involved in a tax case against him
- The FBI raids the Noonday, Texas, home of William Krar and storage facilities he rented in the area, discovering an arsenal that includes more than 500,000 rounds of ammunition, 65 pipe bombs and remote-control briefcase bombs, and almost two pounds of deadly sodium cyanide. Also found are components to convert the cyanide into a bomb capable of killing thousands, along with white supremacist and antigovernment material.
- Police arrest Norman Somerville after finding a huge weapons cache on his property in northern Michigan that includes six machine guns, a powerful anti-aircraft gun, thousands of rounds of ammunition, hundreds of pounds of gunpowder, and an underground bunker. They also find two vehicles Somerville calls his "war wagons," and on which prosecutors later say he planned to mount machine guns as part of a plan to stage an auto accident and then massacre arriving police.
- Neo-Nazi Skinhead Sean Gillespie videotapes himself as he firebombs Temple B'nai Israel,
- Ivan Duane Braden, a former National Guardsman discharged from an Iraq-bound unit after superiors noted signs of instability, is arrested after checking into a mental health facility and telling counselors about plans to blow up a synagogue and a National Guard armory in Tennessee. The FBI reports that Braden told them he'd planned to go to a synagogue wearing a trench coat stuffed with explosives and get himself "as close to children and the rabbi as possible,"
- FBI agents in Tennessee arrest farmhand Demetrius "Van" Crocker after he allegedly tried to purchase ingredients for deadly sarin nerve gas and C-4 plastic explosives from an undercover agent.
- Gabriel Garafa, said to be a leader of the neo-Nazi World Church of the Creator and a member of a racist Skinhead group called The Hated, were charged with illegally selling 11 guns to police informants.

[blackandproud]

Originally Posted by ELOrocks17

Yeah...just look at how they love abortion. Look how upset they were when "Tiller the baby killer" was given justice.

I guess you still believe your right wing females were never on the table spread wide open while tiller exercised their right. Amazing the hypocricy