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This is, has, and always will be the UNITED States of America. If you want to fly your state's flag, no prob! But flying a flag of a rogue, breakaway "nation" (CSA) shows disrespect to me, our forefathers, my country, and to an entire race of men who experienced unspeakable tragedies while being slaved away under that flag.
United STATES, correct, Steve. But note the difference. What was the United States except a "breakaway" nation? And I am proud of it. As I have said countless times, the CSA didn't wish to seperate themselves from the founding principles of the United States...but from a connection with northern states. There, again, is a HUGE difference.
Disprespect? If I wave the Confederate Flag in "your" face, then that is showing disrespect (and I wouldn't do it, anyway....or in anyone elses).
On the other hand, if one by default accuses me of being a racist, KKK member, etc, simply because I display a symbol of my Southern heritage? Then THAT is disrespectful to ME. Why does one matter more than the other?
Would you feel the same way if it was a swastika ?
Except it isn't. Surely you aren't comparing the two...
Here are a few differences:
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1. The Nazi policy of genocide for those races/groups deemed "sub-human." This is the most appalling and revolting of any aspect. And nothing remotely was comparable in Southern history.
2. At the time of the WBTS, slavery still existed in the Western world. And it was being struggled with in the same, as a moral question (in the American South as well). Whereas? Those enslaved in Nazi Germany were at a time when it had disappeared from said Western Civilization for almost a century...and then was brought back.
Too? Those enslaved by the nazi's were literally starved, beaten, and worked to death. Not even the severest critic of slavery as it existed in America alleges such inhumanity was commonplace. Sure, there were sadistic slaveowners, but there were still laws in the Southern states against deliberate mistreatment and slaveowners were obligated by law and common humanitarian/Christian ethics to take care of the sick, injured and old.
3. The Confederate States of America was a constitutional republic like the United States. Nazi Germany was a dictatorship. Free speech, religion, assembly, bearing arms, etc. did not exist in the latter, and in fact, could be punishable by death if deemed to be harmful to the state.
4. Nazi Germany pursued a militaristic and agressive foriegn policy with the intention of world domination. The Confederacy only wanted to be left alone and peacefully pursue its own destiny.
5. The political principles the South fought for were deeply rooted in those set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution (which itself had largely been written by Southerners).
[quote=TexasReb;11787356] As I have said countless times, the CSA didn't wish to seperate themselves from the founding principles of the United States...[quote]
Soooo, secession, formation of a new capital, new currency and a separate constitution doesnt constitute separating themselves from the founding principles of the UNITED States? Nice try.
[quote=Steve-o;11787388][quote=TexasReb;11787356] As I have said countless times, the CSA didn't wish to seperate themselves from the founding principles of the United States...
Quote:
Soooo, secession, formation of a new capital, new currency and a separate constitution doesnt constitute separating themselves from the founding principles of the UNITED States? Nice try.
Good try, Steve (by the way, good to see you again, we have had this talk in the past! LOL)
I notice you don't answer the original import. The 13 American colonies, which later formed the United STATES of America, was born by the same type "seperation"
Well, that is not quite true. Actually, the colonials were British citizens and thus actually committed treason. On the other hand, the Southerners, recognizing (as in the DOI, and Constitution...which they were largely responsible for writing) acted upon the underlying principle of that government derives its powers from the consent of the governed,
Secession may have been unwise, rash action, or plain stupid (many Southern men, such as Robert E. Lee and Sam Houston, thought it was), but it was not treason. Even the powers in the North, later, said as much.
Have you ever actually compared the Constitution of the United States and Confederate States? VERY little difference.
I never said the CSA committed treason, because thats technically what the USA committed. Anyways, we'll never agree on the subject, so we'll leave it at that.
Hello TexasReb, nice to talk to you, before I go I must say I have used some of the examples in your arguments in the past in an informative speech about the flag I did at my college a few months back, and believe me they worked.
My opinion of the flag is as solid and similar as yours, but I see it also as that the flag has no *Universal* meaning, it's just the person(s) views behind it. Hence why you and I see it as pride in the south and it's history and others as hate and ignorance.
They do. They also fly the and carry the flag while wearing a Klan suit. This is a open and shut issue. I live in confederacy ground zero and no one who flies that flag or has it on thier car believes in anything but racial intolerance period. Anything else is a cop out. A man was doing some landscaping for me when I seen the flag on his truck,that was the end of business between us. I wish he would have told me how he felt himself from the beginning. Seeing that flag hurts if you are black thats the bottom line for us. I think you have a right to display it but dont think I'll look at it and say I wonder is this person a racist. Ill know. Same if I ride around with a black fist on my car or flying in my yard
So you are saying that anyone that flies the flag couldn't have possibly voted for Obama, correct?
Should I also feel you are a racist if you have a shirt or bumper sticker with a black fist on it?
Guess the guy in this picture is a racist.
Wonder why a racist would vote for Obama?
"The Union Jack" is the true name of the flag, and it was the official flag representing the Southern states. Since the United States won its Civil War, it would stand to reason the Union Jack is reduced to the status of post war memorabilia of the defeated. It makes no sense to fly the flag of the defeated over American soil. Save the rebel flag for museums along with other relics from history. It's like flying a Mexican flag over the Alamo. It really makes people want to fight the war over again until the Stars and Stripes fly alone. These are not mere scraps of cloth. They are symbols and statements of conquest and territorial ownership. The blood spilled to establish these boundaries and lines of demarkation cannot be forgotten or ignored. "Those who ignore history are sestined to repeat it..."
So those from Germany, Japan etc who have a flag of their country flying cause you to want to go back to war with them?
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