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That's kinda my point. I mean we can say well its Spanish for black or talk about the United Negro College Fund and just hem and haw at it all day but really and truly a white person using the word is probably racist. That's really the bottomline of the matter.
I'm talking about ni**er, not Negro. Negro is old fashioned, yes. But it was never derogatory.
I suspect an older white person who still uses the word "Negro" is uncomfortable dealing with race but I that is an indication of less racism rather than more. A racists isn't uncomfortable dealing with race; s/he deals with it in a decidedly negative manner.
That said, there is a racist way of saying "Negro". It's smarmy and hateful. When you hear it you know the person is a racist. But that by no means that every time -- even most times -- an older white person says "Negro" is s/he is being racist. S/he more likely thinks s/he is being polite.
I'm talking about ni**er, not Negro. Negro is old fashioned, yes. But it was never derogatory.
I suspect an older white person who still uses the word "Negro" is uncomfortable dealing with race but I that is an indication of less racism rather than more. A racists isn't uncomfortable dealing with race; s/he deals with it in a decidedly negative manner.
That said, there is a racist way of saying "Negro". It's smarmy and hateful. When you hear it you know the person is a racist. But that by no means that every time -- even most times -- an older white person says "Negro". s/he is being racist. S/he more likely thinks s/he is being polite.
I'm aware that someone older and white might use the word without ill intentions. I'd still question that person's intentions though. I'd be a lot less likely to confront that person but I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone no matter what their age who called me that word.
I've said in another post that I didn't think that Mr. Reid needed to step down for his remarks about Obama. So I recognize that it can be used with racists intentions but let's be real the chances are someone using that word is probably doing so in a derogatory manner. I think Mr. Reid is an exception not the rule. The situation with the forms is different because someone working at the census that probably lives in the DC area should just know better.
I'm aware that someone older and white might use the word without ill intentions. I'd still question that person's intentions though. I'd be a lot less likely to confront that person but I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone no matter what their age who called me that word.
Even though you state you are aware that older white people use the word without ill intentions, you still judge them negatively if they use it.
Hmmm.....see how that works, that judging-individuals-negatively-based-on-stereotypes thing.
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I've said in another post that I didn't think that Mr. Reid needed to step down for his remarks about Obama. So I recognize that it can be used with racists intentions but let's be real the chances are someone using that word is probably doing so in a derogatory manner. I think Mr. Reid is an exception not the rule. The situation with the forms is different because someone working at the census that probably lives in the DC area should just know better.
This is turning out to be quite a generational thing. Doesn't seem to matter what older people think, the younger people have decided and that's that.
Actually, negro was a word that was adopted by the blacks to be called rather than being called "Black".
So was colored.
So was African-American
So was Black
So was Ni**er
Please... somebody just tell us what we are supposed to call you to describe your physical characteristics in a manner that we don't "offend" anybody.
Is it black now? Is it African-American
I am not racist, but its such a damn touchy subject, I don't even know what to say.
Actually, judging from this post you have not the slightest clue of what any black person or African American person (these are not necessarily the same thing) wants to, or wanted to, call themselves. Actually, it is up to descendants of Africans themselves to determine how they want to be described, and nobody else.
As for me, I am an African person who is an American citizen. African American.
My race is black.
My ancestors came from four continents.
My culture comes from Africans in Latin America, the Caribbean and North America.
Colored people ("people of color") are those who are not purely white European in heritage. This is a colloquialism, an informal term, that can be used anywhere in the world. Or not.
I do not use the N***** word, and you damn well better not either.
Actually, judging from this post you have not the slightest clue of what any black person or African American person (these are not necessarily the same thing) wants to, or wanted to, call themselves. Actually, it is up to descendants of Africans themselves to determine how they want to be described, and nobody else.
As for me, I am an African person who is an American citizen. African American.
My race is black.
My ancestors came from four continents.
My culture comes from Africans in Latin America, the Caribbean and North America.
Colored people ("people of color") are those who are not purely white European in heritage. This is a colloquialism, an informal term, that can be used anywhere in the world. Or not.
I do not use the N***** word, and you damn well better not either.
Obviously I don't, and I openly admitted that I don't know what I am talking about. Not because I am ignorant of the historical damage some of these words have done, but moreso with how to keep from offending people.
I have no interest in offending anybody, of any ethnicity. From my perspective, as a white guy, I am simply asking "what do you want me to say?"
If I am trying to describe somebody physically, should I say "Black guy" because some people get offended by that. Should I say "African American" even though I disagree with that term, since we are all American, and you stated that not all blacks are of African Decent.
Lets assume that I call the police, and a black police officer arrives. When trying to describe somebody... what word do I use so he doesn't think I am a racist?
At times, I think that there is NO word that I can use without some connotation of racism being accused.
We don't see this from Mexicans, Romanians, White Guys, Native Americans, or nearly any other ethnicity on the planet... but we DO see it all the time from blacks. So my honest question remains... what is the safe word?
Obviously I don't, and I openly admitted that I don't know what I am talking about. Not because I am ignorant of the historical damage some of these words have done, but moreso with how to keep from offending people.
I have no interest in offending anybody, of any ethnicity. From my perspective, as a white guy, I am simply asking "what do you want me to say?"
OK, cool. I understand. Just seemed a bit snarky, and if I returned what I saw as snark with more snark, I sincerely apologize.
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If I am trying to describe somebody physically, should I say "Black guy" because some people get offended by that. Should I say "African American" even though I disagree with that term, since we are all American, and you stated that not all blacks are of African Decent.
Calling someone who looks like an obvious African descendant black is not an insult. A black guy is a black guy. What I mean by some of the other things I said is that not all blacks (people of African descent) are from the African American population. All African Americans are black, but not all blacks are African American. All black Americans (and Caribbeans and black Latinos) are of African descent.
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Lets assume that I call the police, and a black police officer arrives. When trying to describe somebody... what word do I use so he doesn't think I am a racist?
He's a black guy. As long the perp is an actual black guy, and not a fictitious one, I have no problem with you calling the cops on him.
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At times, I think that there is NO word that I can use without some connotation of racism being accused.
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That's sad. Like I said, don't call me no Negro or colored or N*****. You call me black or African American I don't see a problem.
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We don't see this from Mexicans, Romanians, White Guys, Native Americans, or nearly any other ethnicity on the planet... but we DO see it all the time from blacks. So my honest question remains... what is the safe word?
That's because you are talking about different categories and different situations. Mexicans have a country. If you are from Mexico, or your parents or grandparents are from there, you're Mexican or Mexican American. Anyway, Mexicans are generally mestizo (mixed Spanish/Native), but you can neither look at a person who looks Mexican and assume he is nor assume that a person who does not "look Mexican" is not. He could be Guatemalan, Honduran, Peruvian or Native American (non-Spanish speaking). There are also Mexicans who do not resemble the majority of people from that country. I know Mexicans who are black as some Africans, a couple who are totally Asian, and one woman who looks like Tiger Woods' wife.
Romanians are a small subset of white Eastern Europeans - some have Latin-derived names (because Romanian is a Romance language), but still others have Hungarian names and German names. A few are dark like East Indians, and indeed are Gypsy (Romany) people whose origins are in the subcontinent.
White Guys don't have this problem because in America they are still the default category. If you're not a White Guy, you're a White Girl. If you're not a White Guy or a White Girl, you're Other.
Native Americans are a very small group, and in terms of culture, the vast majority of Native Americans in North America are Spanish-speaking mestizos from Mexico and Central America.
As for other groups, the thing is that we are discussing America and a distinctly American ethnic group. Black folks descended from African slaves are a population that is unique in this country, and all we have to do as a nation is understand this.
Even though you state you are aware that older white people use the word without ill intentions, you still judge them negatively if they use it.
Hmmm.....see how that works, that judging-individuals-negatively-based-on-stereotypes thing.
This is turning out to be quite a generational thing. Doesn't seem to matter what older people think, the younger people have decided and that's that.
I would not want to be in the same room with someone who uses that word. Its not about judging its about not being comfortable around any white person that uses that word among others. I think that's better than being disrespectful to an elderly person and confronting them about it. So please don't imply that I don't respect my elders. It's hard not to judge someone that brings truth to a negative stereotype about older white people.
I would not want to be in the same room with someone who uses that word. Its not about judging its about not being comfortable around any white person that uses that word among others. I think that's better than being disrespectful to an elderly person and confronting them about it. So please don't imply that I don't respect my elders. It's hard not to judge someone that brings truth to a negative stereotype about older white people.
I didn't imply that you don't respect your elders. I implied that you judge all white people and their motives by stereotypes you have embraced.
My comments about it being generational were simply statements based on what I've heard since these two incidents of the use of the word "Negro" came to light.
I found this thread completely by accident, mistakenly clicked on it, and all i can say is why are WE as a nation STILL having these type of conversations.
WE have a black President, politicians, most of the top sportsmen/women (most popular that is) Media moguls
WE live in the most multi-racial times in OUR history, and this is what I raised my children to look forward to, to not use colour,class, or religion to judge someone by.To want OUR neighbour to be of any racial background, but only see them as AMERICANS.To no longer see colour as a reason/excuse not to achieve. WE live in the times that the great freedom fighters of OUR history strived/died for, but listening to you guys it still aint good enough. Those great prophetic words that started " I HAVE A DREAM", are NOW, but nobody wants to see.
""WE THE PEOPLE" did'nt start with a specific colour, it merely taught us to strive for what WE have today.
But it seems, the more we are together, the LESS WE want to be !
This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICANS.
This is OUR best time in history, yet our biggest gripe..............NAME CALLING.
Last edited by bobdun1; 01-15-2010 at 05:48 PM..
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