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What's funny is people criticize Evangelical Christians yet the Evangelicals turn it around and claim we are bashing all Christians assuming that none of us are Christians or that all existing Christians are the born-again Evangelical type. This is just a desperate ploy by to suggest this is Christian bashing when it's really Evangelical bashing. There is a difference. Most Christians in this country don't identify with born again Evangelicals. They are a cult just like the Taliban
No difference. "Born again" is not a cult, as you say. You don't understand, just as Nicodemus did not understand when Jesus said to him: You must be born again.
John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
John 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
It is not enough to just "believe" something. It must involve a spiritual rebirth for it to be real. Jesus said so, John (who was his disciple and knew him) recorded it. So, what, exactly is the objection to people who are "born again" if it is a scriptural truth and an real event?
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick
it does not bother me at all. I just find "faith" a justification for religion and its mind control. Do as the church says because...........nevermind you will never get it.
No, we "get it" all right. We've been there. But that's not what it's all about. It's not what "the church says". It's understanding what the Bible says. I don't know what church you're so angry about (I hear that a lot about RC), but protestant denominations don't elevate 'the church' (denomination) above God. There is no church that saves, and no church that condemns. What you call "the church" is actually the entire body of believers throughout the world, the "true church", not any one denomination, or any one leader.
You all really need to get a grip and stop the bashing, no matter what term you apply to the group - be it "Christian" or "Evangelical". And stop this Taliban nonsense. That's pretty hateful and doesn't further the cause of understanding (if that's what we're all trying to aim for).
My issue is that people who use the bible as a fall back can use it for literally anything they do. You can justify abortion, murder, wife abuse, homosexuality, literally anything.
They do if they don't know the Bible, or if they like to pick and choose a verse here and there out of context. One has to be really twisted or truly ignorant to do that. For example, about your comment about wife abuse:
Scripture tells us that a husband must love his wife as Christ loves the Church. That means, lay down his life for her (put her first) in a multitude of ways.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organick
it does not bother me at all. I just find "faith" a justification for religion and its mind control. Do as the church says because...........nevermind you will never get it.
Full disclosure - I was raised in the Southern Baptist church but have settled comfortably into what I would call "spritually respectful agnosticism".
Now, as far as "never getting it" - I think I've got a lot more than you. Personal faith is not the problem and it never will be. The problem is some people's refusal to accept the world that we live in. Whether that is commitment to some shade of athiestic utopianism or commitment to religion to the point of irrationality doesn't matter.
No difference. "Born again" is not a cult, as you say. You don't understand, just as Nicodemus did not understand when Jesus said to him: You must be born again.
John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
John 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'
It is not enough to just "believe" something. It must involve a spiritual rebirth for it to be real. Jesus said so, John (who was his disciple and knew him) recorded it. So, what, exactly is the objection to people who are "born again" if it is a scriptural truth and an real event?
No, we "get it" all right. We've been there. But that's not what it's all about. It's not what "the church says". It's understanding what the Bible says. I don't know what church you're so angry about (I hear that a lot about RC), but protestant denominations don't elevate 'the church' (denomination) above God. There is no church that saves, and no church that condemns. What you call "the church" is actually the entire body of believers throughout the world, the "true church", not any one denomination, or any one leader.
You all really need to get a grip and stop the bashing, no matter what term you apply to the group - be it "Christian" or "Evangelical". And stop this Taliban nonsense. That's pretty hateful and doesn't further the cause of understanding (if that's what we're all trying to aim for).
I never said anything about the taliban. I do however find fundamentalists of any religion to be quite scary. The bible is a book, written by human beings just like you and me. It tells stories to try to prove points and spread morals. Thats it.
They do if they don't know the Bible, or if they like to pick and choose a verse here and there out of context. One has to be really twisted or truly ignorant to do that. For example, about your comment about wife abuse:
Scripture tells us that a husband must love his wife as Christ loves the Church. That means, lay down his life for her (put her first) in a multitude of ways.
it also calls eating shellfish or wearing mixed material clothing blasphemous.
Full disclosure - I was raised in the Southern Baptist church but have settled comfortably into what I would call "spritually respectful agnosticism".
Now, as far as "never getting it" - I think I've got a lot more than you. Personal faith is not the problem and it never will be. The problem is some people's refusal to accept the world that we live in. Whether that is commitment to some shade of athiestic utopianism or commitment to religion to the point of irrationality doesn't matter.
I have no problem with personal faith or beliefs. don't shove it down my throat and keep it out of my government, my schools, my military, my courts etc. Its personal
Alright, why don't we return to the topic of U.S. military equipment being inscribed by the manufacturer with biblical codes, not whether religion is legitimate or not.
It's against military policy.
This has been posted several times in the other threads on this topic.
Do you really want the middle east to be able to propagandize that the US has a religious jihad?
Where is the common sense in that?
Oh yeah...that'll change their view of us. If we take off the serial numbers they didn't know about until we pointed them out a week or so ago, they'll stop trying to rid the Earth of us. I bet there are some of them right now thinking..."I won't try to kill any more of those guys/gals if they just take those serial numbers off their rifles. If they just take those serial numbers off, I will love them."
You mean, until it was brought to leadership attention.
Would you have been happy if it were Koran verses? Most likely, not.
Okay. That's fine with me. I seem to recall serving with a couple Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who had "stuff" written on some of their equipment. If there is a Korean dude who wants a religious saying written on his rifle, I don't give a F if it makes him feel better while he's in 100 plus heat, risking his life every day while not seeing his family for a year. As long as it doesn't translate to "I hate America", I don't give a F. And...what about dog tags?
It doesn't matter, it is inappropriate and against policy.
So is the Army allowing Sikh's to wear Turban's and not shave. It matters when some people are treated different than others. It's called discrimination.
A Michigan company that manufactures combat rifle sights for the U.S. military that carry Bible verse citations said Thursday it would send kits to remove the inscriptions, NBC reported.
Trijicon Inc. also said it would take off Biblical references from all U.S. military products that are still in the company's factory and ensure future items do not have any inscriptions on them.
It is off point. Go ahead and start another thread. Christianity doesn't need anymore abuse.
There's a reason why most in military don't want a draft to be reinstated. I see the wisdom behind that decision when I read this thread.
It's not off topic. It's completely on topic. I'm comparing the treatment of one situation to another based on the exact same general topic (religion). And... personal attacks are weak. They are childish. If you have to go there when debating, don't debate. Did you expect this to be one-sided?
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