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Old 03-02-2010, 04:06 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,304,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The coercive element depends entirely upon his confidence that the inherent threat of others acting in a similar way would be realized. I don't know if he was that confident.
His confidence in whether others would pursuit his cause is immaterial. It only matters that he attempted to motivate others to act in a similar way ie coerce others. And those intentions were clearly outlined in his manifesto.

Furthermore, coercion and influence are different concepts. Terrorism isn't strictly defined by coercion of others to mimic his violent acts. It could simply be to influence others to share his view of the IRS.
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Old 03-02-2010, 04:25 PM
zox
 
344 posts, read 479,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The coercive element depends entirely upon his confidence that the inherent threat of others acting in a similar way would be realized. I don't know if he was that confident.
Coercion means to get others to act through force. It is not limited to getting others to mimic acts of violence. If a government acts as a result of a violent effect, that is a coercion. If people begin to view the IRS differently as a result of a violent act that was imposed upon them, that is coercion. A terrorist act is one with the intent to coerce something. It doesn't require the successful completion of an act in response to a violent act for it to be defined as a terrorist action. This act was a terrorist action. He has a political motive and published that motive and focused his effort on a specific target. His act was done to not only punish the IRS but to convince others the IRS was a malicious entity.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,449 posts, read 14,471,535 times
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Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
How do you know that his intention was to kill IRS employees?
Well gee golly, I dunno...maybe it's because he FLEW HIS PLANE INTO THEIR BUILDING.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:29 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
His confidence in whether others would pursuit his cause is immaterial. It only matters that he attempted to motivate others to act in a similar way ie coerce others. And those intentions were clearly outlined in his manifesto.

Furthermore, coercion and influence are different concepts. Terrorism isn't strictly defined by coercion of others to mimic his violent acts. It could simply be to influence others to share his view of the IRS.
I think we have a conflict with defining terrorism. Terrorism isn't just an infliction of terror. Terrorism is the infliction of terror with the goal of causing the establishment or authorities to do something they would otherwise not do. So Stack's confidence in whether others would follow his lead is material. Because his singular act will not cause authorities to change their policies unless there is a reasonable threat of future such actions from like-minded persons. Coercion is a fundamental part of what terrorism is, so simply influencing others to share your views is outside the parameters of terrorism.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:36 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zox View Post
Coercion means to get others to act through force. It is not limited to getting others to mimic acts of violence. If a government acts as a result of a violent effect, that is a coercion. If people begin to view the IRS differently as a result of a violent act that was imposed upon them, that is coercion. A terrorist act is one with the intent to coerce something. It doesn't require the successful completion of an act in response to a violent act for it to be defined as a terrorist action. This act was a terrorist action. He has a political motive and published that motive and focused his effort on a specific target. His act was done to not only punish the IRS but to convince others the IRS was a malicious entity.
Influencing people to alter their views is not coercion, it's persuasion. A terrorist act ultimately threatens that more violence will follow unless the authorities submit to the terrorists' demands. That is the element of coercion in terrorism. If someone commits suicide in a violent act against a government or nation or government entity, but they are not part of a larger group threatening futher such acts, then the isolation of their act, their inability to coerce, means their act may inflict terror, but is not an act of terrorism.
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