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i get that but he never gave an excuse as to what happened to his original document...that's all I'm getting at...i mean as a normal person we can say "go eff yourself" when people ask where our original documents are, but as a transparent president like he wants to be "which i don't agree he has been but we disagree on that" he has a duty to inform the public on something so important because it is law that you have to be a citizen born in the U.S. to be a president
Yes, you need to be a citizen born in the United States to be President of the United States. However, his birth certificate has been validated by officials in Hawaii, it clearly states he was born there and is available for everyone to see. Their is nothing that is not transparent about that. In fact he has done more than any other President in that regard, I don't see Bush's birth certificate as being publicly released? Do you? Or Clinton's, or George H.W Bush, or Reagan, etc...
Talk about beating a dead horse. It's barely a skeleton now.
Quite honestly, if I had a thread like this in a forum I operated, I would lock it ASAP, ask all posters to stop making posts about Obama citizenship conspiracy theories, and ask all posters who honestly believe in those theories to pretend that they don't believe that and to stay silent regarding any and all such conspiracy theories (except in private messages - they could have private message conversations about those theories)
Talk about beating a dead horse. It's barely a skeleton now.
Quite honestly, if I had a thread like this in a forum I operated, I would lock it ASAP, ask all posters to stop making posts about Obama citizenship conspiracy theories, and ask all posters who honestly believe in those theories to pretend that they don't believe that and to stay silent regarding any and all such conspiracy theories (except in private messages - they could have private message conversations about those theories)
you're right....i forgot..in a free country i can be detained for speaking badly of Mr. Sotoero....i should shut up before i say the wrong "keywords" here in this "free society"..now there is a conspiracy u can look up..it's not true that they can detain me right?
America may be a free country, but city-data.com is not a free forum. The moderators may delete or alter any message on the forum for any reason, including no reason at all. Any private forum is moderated to the desire of the moderators.
Naturally any forum can't become too restrictive because people can leave and go to other forums. However I believe that banning this silly conspiracy theory talk would be a great step for the discussion atmosphere of the forum. I would do that in my forum, because I think that the promotion of a thoroughly debunked conspiracy theory is pointless and wastes bandwidth and time.
One can speak badly of Obama, but there is a difference between good faith criticism of his policies and the promotion of a lunatic conspiracy theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorRob305
you're right....i forgot..in a free country i can be detained for speaking badly of Mr. Sotoero....i should shut up before i say the wrong "keywords" here in this "free society"..now there is a conspiracy u can look up..it's not true that they can detain me right?
I heartily endorse the choice of the Birther issue as a conservative plank.
The positions of this OP (GuyNTexas) have nothing to do with any mainstream group. They are neo-Nazi, xenophobic, and racist. And he is a conspiracy theorist in the extreme.
His posts have not been deleted by the moderator (and some of them absolutely deserved to have been). In absence of the moderators exercising their responsibility, he should be ignored by forum participants.
Given the demonstrated inability to grasp simple concepts, I'm not optimistic about the more complex ones .. but lets try anyway:
It's so intelligent to lead off a post by insulting the people reading it.
I think it would be safe to say that there is certainly evidence of Obama Senior and Momma Obama being in Hawaii. So that's not contested. But there is no record of them actually being married or living together as a married couple.
What would this have to do with Obama's citizenship though?
Now, the newspaper announcements you are referencing announces that Mr. & Mrs Obama gave birth to a son. No name ... no reference to a city, or a hospital ... nothing specific. And anyone could place a newspaper announcement. I could place an announcement in the Hawaii papers tomorrow that GuyNTexas was just awarded 150 Million in the Nigerian lottery (I've received several of these notifications in my email box .), but it won't help me pay the bills this month.
The fact that the birth announcement was in the Honolulu paper suggests that someone at that point was establishing that Barack Obama Jr was born in Honolulu.
Now am I suggesting that Mr. & Mrs Obama decided while she was pregnant that they were facing the choice of giving birth to the next Jesus (or more likely Mohammed), or perhaps the future president of the United States? No.
But, I could see a plausible case in these parents preferring to have their son born a US Citizen rather than him being a citizen of Kenya or Indonesia, if given the choice. And it's not a stretch of the imagination that during Obama Senior continued education in Hawaii, he might have taken it upon himself to learn the rules and procedures of documenting birth in Hawaii, and hence, securing his son's status as a US citizen, even after leaving Hawaii with his pregnant wife who actually gave birth to Barry outside the United States. We know he was raised outside the United States ... the issue is was he born here ... and a newspaper announcement is not evidence of birth ... it is just evidence of an announcement of birth.
First, he wouldn't have been a citizen of Indonesia in any way, shape, or form in 1961. And secondly, what plausible case? His mother was an American, going to school in the United States. Getting him American citizenship would have been no problem. And why would his mother have cared? She first marries a Kenyan and then an Indonesian. She lived a significant part of her life overseas. Where's your plausible case that she and her husband would have gone to great lengths to conspire for their son to be a natural-born American? And you should be aware that if her son had been born in Kenya, (extremely doubtful) he'd be a British citizen. Kenya was a British protectorate at the time. If Obama's mother thought an American passport was substantially better than a British passport, she could have simply petitioned to have her son, the son of an American woman, to be naturalized as an American citizen.
Can you not see the potential desire for a foreign born parent to secure US citizenship for their child? It happens every day with pregnant women entering the country to give birth to border babies.
Stanley Dunham wasn't a foreign-born parent. So I don't see how this argument applies. Obama wasn't an anchor baby. His father never used his son to secure residence in the United States, because his academic career did that. When he was done with his education, Obama's father returned to Kenya. So what motivation are you arguing here?
In any event, regardless of all of this ... if the newspaper announcements are legit, then there is a long form Birth Certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health, and the entire matter could be cleared up with one phone call from the "President" telling Hawaiian authorities to release the document, and end the debate. He refuses to. The question I would put to you and Barry is why? Why hide this information, fueling the debate?
The Department of Health doesn't release the document. The document never leaves the vault. When someone applies for a new birth certificate, each state has a form that they use. The birth certificate that is posted at snopes is an example of the form that Hawaii uses. Hawaii has maintained that that birth certificate is legitimate. (My birth certificate doesn't list the date and time, doesn't list the doctor, doesn't have the doctor's signature, and yet it's always been accepted as legitimate. What plausible reason do you have for trying to impose a higher standard to one citizen of this country versus another?) The fact is that Obama's not hiding anything. He posted his birth certificate on-line. He allowed people to personally inspect it and to verify its authenticity. The state of Hawaii has verified it. If you don't want to accept this birth certificate, what would make you accept a new birth certificate as genuine. Obviously, you believe that Hawaii is involved in the conspiracy, because otherwise you would accept it when the state authorities say this is a valid birth certificate. So, no matter how many Hawaiian birth certificates get released, none would be accepted by you.
The only obvious conclusion is that either these documents don't exist, or there is something in these records that are damaging to Obama.
We The People have a right to know who Barry Soetoro really is.
Now you STOP, and you answer the questions ... Why is he keeping this information secret? If the document exists that proves he is a natural born citizen, why does he not just produce it and put this to bed once and for all?
He has produced the document proving he is a natural-born citizen. You don't want to accept it.
Let's look at this another way.
Stanley Dunham gets pregnant at eighteen by an older man from Kenya. She marries him (or not, because it doesn't really make any difference). You think it was important to the baby's parents that he have natural-born status. It was so important that they went to extreme measures to secure that status. If it was so important to them, why not just stay in the United States until the baby was born? Here's just a few reasons to stay in the United States. 1. Stanley Dunham is a teenage girl having her first baby. That's pretty scary. It would be even scarier to go around the world to have that baby, surrounded by strangers. Staying home, and having the baby with your parents nearby if something should go wrong would be the more natural choice. 2. The United States medical facilities versus the Kenyan medical facilities in 1961. Speaks for itself. 3. In 1961, Hawaii had no international airports. And to fly between Honolulu and Nairobi would require multiple legs to the journey, and would probably have taken longer than a day. It wasn't a minor journey. The cabins in the planes weren't as well pressurized in 1961 as they are today. Some airlines wouldn't have allowed a very pregnant woman to board. It would have been a logistical nightmare in every way. Why not wait until after the child is born? 4. Even after arriving at the airport in Kenya, there would have been an arduous trip to get to her husband's home. Would a pregnant woman choose to put herself through that? 5. Obama, Sr, had good reason not to take his pregnant American wife back to Kenya, because he was already married in Kenya. His Kenyan wife would hardly have been thrilled to meet Stanley Dunham. 6. Her baby was due in August. School was just about to start. She planned to go back to classes, even though she had a newborn. A trip to Kenya, pregnant, wasn't exactly convenient. 7. Money. Neither Stanley Dunham nor her family was particularly wealthy, and Obama, Sr was dependent on scholarships. In 1961, a multiple-leg journey to other side of the world took money. Where did the money come from?
I don't see the issue here. I mean even in death you have to provide a death certificate to show proof you kicked the bucket just so Uncle Sam won't think you faked your death. So why can't my man Barry come clean on this is beyond me.
The more he holds out, the more perception of guilt that he's a fraud. a 5yr old can see that. Just look at that credit card commercial. kids are not dumb. Barry is.
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.), but it won't help me pay the bills this month.