Liberals on guns: let's burn this strawman right up! (enemies, poll, suspect)

[sunkl]

Originally Posted by pbrauer

I totally agree, it's the NRA, which is really a gun lobby, that stoke the fires. Which causes guns and ammo to go flying off the shelves.

I personally would not own a gun, but I think people have that right.

**I personally would not own a gun, but I think people have that right.**

Gee, how very generous of you.

If it weren't for the NRA, the right for people to "keep and bear" firearms would have disappeared long ago. ....and not long after, the right to free speech, and most, if not all, the other guarentees under the Constitution would have as well.

I'd like for you to show me where the 2cnd Amendment mentions "hunting."

An un-armed population has no way of defending and protecting themselves from a government intent on stripping the people of any of their rights.

The reason guns and ammo go "flying off the shelves" is because they know the record of the gun-grabbing leftists, and that includes the current occupant of the WH. In fact he has done more for the firearm industry than the NRA has.

[Memphis1979]

Originally Posted by sunkl

**I personally would not own a gun, but I think people have that right.**

Gee, how very generous of you.

If it weren't for the NRA, the right for people to "keep and bear" firearms would have disappeared long ago. ....and not long after, the right to free speech, and most, if not all, the other guarentees under the Constitution would have as well.

I'd like for you to show me where the 2cnd Amendment mentions "hunting."

An un-armed population has no way of defending and protecting themselves from a government intent on stripping the people of any of their rights.

The reason guns and ammo go "flying off the shelves" is because they know the record of the gun-grabbing leftists, and that includes the current occupant of the WH. In fact he has done more for the firearm industry than the NRA has.

Do you have proof of any of this, or is it just part of a hyper paranoid opinion?

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by sunkl

An un-armed population has no way of defending and protecting themselves from a government intent on stripping the people of any of their rights.

The reason guns and ammo go "flying off the shelves" is because they know the record of the gun-grabbing leftists, and that includes the current occupant of the WH. In fact he has done more for the firearm industry than the NRA has.

Don't move, sunkl.

There's a black helicopter right over your head.

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by jy_2007

Fellow liberals, what are your opinions on guns and gun control?

Simple,
I'm in favor of passing laws that would make sure that only responsible gun owners can use guns.

Apply the same laws to gun that we have for cars:
- You have to pass a test to prove that you are competent to use a gun
- You have to be 16-18 to get a license to use a gun
- You have to have gun insurance, in case that you damage somebody else's property.
- Same as with cars (a driver's license doesn't give you the right to drive a 18 wheeler or a tank down the street) a special license would be required to use an automatic rifle or anything similar.
- Same as with a car, these laws don't apply if you use it in your own house or farm.


I don't understand why pro-gun people are afraid of having something like that.
Those laws should only scare criminals.

[arctichomesteader]

Licenses grant privileges not rights. Every state should be like Vermont.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

You know, my home county didn't allow liquor sells for a long time. I didn't like it, but states have the right to legislate laws, as long as they are constitutional.

Cases have already been brought to court over requiring ID to buy fire arms. It is constitutional.

The Constitution only guarantees you the right to bear arms. It doesn't say what loop holes you'll have to jump through to buy those arms, or what type of arms will be available to you.

California doesn't forbid you from buying guns, it only requires a background check.

Can you show me the Constitutional amendment, or law that guarantees you the right to buy arms from a private citizen without a background check?

I am not opposed to a background check that is done on the spot and instantly. With today's technology, I should be able to go to a gun dealer or a local police precinct, submit my ID and fingerprints and be able to pick up my clearance letter within 2 hours or less. There is no reason to deny people their rights to arms by imposing "15 day waiting periods" for background checks. The reason people buy firearms is because they feel a threat. It may be a real threat- such as an ex boyfriend stalking and threatening a lady or it may be a perceived threat such as somebody heard noises around the house or a neighbour's home got robbed. In either case, they do not want to wait 15 days for a background check and they should not have to wait. A lot of this is just anti gun nuts throwing up barriers to the right to have a gun in much the same way the anti abortion people try to use things like a "waiting period" or requiring counseling and an ultrasound for women who wish to exercise their right to an abortion. Non sense like this should not be tolerated.
As for liquor sales, I am of the belief that you should be able to buy it 24 hours a day 7 days a week but the Constitution specifically gives the states control over liquor sales (the only product not covered by the Commerce Clause).

[KevK]

Originally Posted by gysmo

anyone that believes a gun is just another tool, is a tool, and have no busisness handling such a tool

Actually a nail gun is a tool. It fires the same black powder cartridge. It just has a nail instead of a bullet on the cartridge.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

The killer at Virginia Tech was able to legally buy his handguns because the law did not mandate that his mental health records be reported to the federal background check system. Even though that specific problem has since been fixed at the state level in Virginia, a future shooter would still be able to walk into a gun show in more than 30 states (including Virginia) and purchase a firearm(s) from an unlicensed seller without undergoing any background check whatsoever. We have visited gun shows in Virginia and other states and witnessed these unregulated sales firsthand. Some of us have even purchased guns in this manner and documented it on video in order to demonstrate how easy it is.

When we ask law enforcement what we can do to prevent another Virginia Tech shooting—the response is invariably "close the Gun Show Loophole" to stop criminals, domestic abusers, the seriously mentally ill, and other prohibited purchasers from getting guns. The Virginia Tech Review Panel Report made the recommendation that all private sales at gun shows be processed through the background check system, stating, "In an age of widespread information technology, it should not be too difficult for anyone, including private sellers, to contact the [appropriate federal and state databases] for a background check that usually only takes minutes before transferring a firearm."


Read more: Virginia Tech Families Thank Congressmen for their Leadership on Gun Show Loophole Issue

The gun show loophole should only be closed by an instant check system. For example, if you have a gun show, you contact the local Sheriff and he sits up a background check desk at the show. You go to the show and see a gun you wish to buy but you do not have a permit as of yet. You go to the background check desk, they take your ID, prints and photo (charging a nominal processing fee of maybe $25 or so) and you go eat lunch and come back to the desk in an hour and pick up your clearance letter.
Gun shows typically last only a weekend and many times buyer and seller live in different states or different parts of the same state. The deal has to be closed that day.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by Memphis1979

Tell me one real situation where someone needed a gun that day, and they haven't broken a law of their own. I'd love to hear one.

Oh, and make sure its nothing like "her boyfriend was going to kill her", because you can simply go to the police for that one.

Sure you can go to the police. Do you think the police are going to put an officer in front of your house all night? Or an officer in your office all day? There are dozens of stories of women that went to the police and were murdered in front of dozens of witnesses the very next day. People- that are not regular gun users or collectors- do not go out and spend $300 and up on a gun unless they feel a need to have it. Most people would rather spend the money on something that they will get some good from- like a TV set- than a gun that will sit idle "just in case". It is like paying for insurance. If you thought you didn't need it, you wouldn't buy it.

[lifelongMOgal]

Originally Posted by KevK

The gun show loophole should only be closed by an instant check system. For example, if you have a gun show, you contact the local Sheriff and he sits up a background check desk at the show. You go to the show and see a gun you wish to buy but you do not have a permit as of yet. You go to the background check desk, they take your ID, prints and photo (charging a nominal processing fee of maybe $25 or so) and you go eat lunch and come back to the desk in an hour and pick up your clearance letter.
Gun shows typically last only a weekend and many times buyer and seller live in different states or different parts of the same state. The deal has to be closed that day.

What loophole? The practice of law abiding citizens to buy/sell firearms in private treaty within the boundaries of the current state and federal gun laws? How is that a "loophole"?