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I don't think there is any room for emotion. Machiavelli.
I admit that I did not get the point you tried to make. Maybe tell me in your own words what you wanted to say.
However, I will guess what I think you meant, that I got emotional in my message? Of course I feel emotions, do you not when you discuss any issues? If that is the case, again, what were you trying to say, not to have any feelings behind my views?
I do not think there is anything wrong for people to feel, think, and believe. The important things is if you are going to allow your feelings, thoughts, and beliefs to override your abilities to reason and use logic and get the best of you.
Again, please let me know what you meant by the quotation.
The thing is you want to form pacts in YOUR interests and break down your enemys ability to do the same otherwise you will be fighting a much more gresome war to defend your nations interests and way of life. If your enemy is down trauden you keep them that way you dont allow them to form pacts and develop weapons that can be used against you.
He wasn't talking about us forming pacts, he was talking about small countries forming pacts:
Quote:
Some small countries may not have the military might to defend themselves against their enemies. What to do? Have a pact with more powerful nations to defend their national interests against more powerful enemies.
And you are talking from the standpoint of the "more powerful enemy" that the small county wants to defend itself against.
I admit that I did not get the point you tried to make. Maybe tell me in your own words what you wanted to say.
However, I will guess what I think you meant, that I got emotional in my message? Of course I feel emotions, do you not when you discuss any issues? If that is the case, again, what were you trying to say, not to have any feelings behind my views?
I do not think there is anything wrong for people to feel, think, and believe. The important things is if you are going to allow your feelings, thoughts, and beliefs to override your abilities to reason and use logic and get the best of you.
Again, please let me know what you meant by the quotation.
You have a great day.
El Amigo
No. Not a quote. Have you ever read The Prince? It was written by Nicollo Machiavelli. It is a mindset and it does come with the territory.
I am referring to this line here which I had underlined.
Quote:
They are human and some ARE uncaring but that comes with the territory. Not all our leaders will be good
.
I like international politics because I can exclude emotion and at that point it is similar to a chess game. Then it is a matter of contracts and who has what, who wants what but more importantly who is buying what from who. Very different mindset then say...human rights or arguing with the VA and the expendibility of soldiers. Necessary mind set, but a mind set none the less.
This is a very well-reasoned comment. I would question only a few points on it.
If the people of a nation are unwilling to go to war, perhaps that suggests that no valid reasons exist to go to war. If you're asking soldiers to go to war to defend a democratic process, the decision to go to war should also reflect the will of the people. The Vietnam debacle ended for only one reason---reasonable men refused to obey the command to go. I have heard that a similar phenomenon is beginning to occur in Iraq and Afghanistan, where more and more troops are simply showing up for roll call, but keeping out of sight of commanders for the rest of the day, or creating excuses for unexecuted commands..
I am aware that at times the people are unwilling to go to war. What to do? When we elect our leaders there is a degree of trust we must have on them. Will they break that trust? We know they do that. Also, do we trust their judgement? They have proved it is not very good also. What is for the people to do? As a country when we have enough enough people and the determination to do so we can stop them from doing what they want. Until then there is nothing we can do. If the decision to go to war was wrong we will pay the price as a nation as we have in the past. That will be part of our history as a shameful part of it. When it is time to re-election as a nation we can then try to oust that bad leader. We had as a nation to oust President Bush and we did not. We actually re-elected him and even after re-election we did not push enough to oust him. The people in California did oust their governor when they had enough, why not a president as a nation? What you head about Irak and Afganistan I would not doubt it is true. Keep in mind that it takes time for people to change. The people has shown change. They have risked life to vote but of course it is difficult for others to accept. We will know probably years later whether going to Irak and Afganistan was the right thing. What I do think is that going to Afganistan was the correct thing to chase Al-kaida. They have admitted being behind 9/11. There is a point when you must go after those that attack you in your homeland. At least that is how I feel. There is a time when you must take action. I am not saying I like this but at times you must take it to those that invade your country. I do remember years ago when no one messed with Israel as they do now. Israel used to go any country that messed with them. Remember the raid at Entebe? Now, they have become a more gentle country and what is happening to them? They are now being attacked more often because they know they have shown more restrain. What to do?
As for your defense pacts, we are at the moment talking about the Islamic sphere of influence. Logically, there should be a central power within that region, with which smaller countries can align for mutual defense. By refusing Iran (the logical candidate) the opportunity to develop defensive capacity, we are forcing the Islamic nations to align themselves with power alien to their own interests. Some will align with the USA, some with China, some with Russia, and that is practically a guarantee that wars will break out in the region. The best thing for the Islamic word's security would be for them all to align themselves with a single big brother, which has defensive clout and a mutual interest with the pact members. America is doing everything in its power, including nuclear threat, to stop that stabilizing evolution from taking place.
You could be right in your assessment of the situation. However, you are not at the helm of this country. Also, you are not privy to a lot of closed door information and intelligence to say you are correct. Again, all I can say is hope that they are doing the best decisions to protect our country and our interests.
I am not saying I totally agree with our decisions as a nation so at my level all I can say I vote and express my views with people here and my legislators. I have no problem with you expressing your views. It is important to let our leaders know how we feel. It is also important to force them to let us know as much as possible why they make the decisions they make. However, there is a point that secret intelligence must be kept. There is where people do not have the full picture. That is part of the problem. We must accept secrecy to some degree for the sake of security.
No. Not a quote. Have you ever read The Prince? It was written by Nicollo Machiavelli. It is a mindset and it does come with the territory.
I am referring to this line here which I had underlined.
.
I like international politics because I can exclude emotion and at that point it is similar to a chess game. Then it is a matter of contracts and who has what, who wants what but more importantly who is buying what from who. Very different mindset then say...human rights or arguing with the VA and the expendibility of soldiers. Necessary mind set, but a mind set none the less.
Do you understand what I mean?
I got it. I have read Machiavelli. I do differ to some degree with your point. As I stated before I as a Soldier can act ethically at my level with performing my duties even if the war may not be the right decision. A world leaders can be caring and still behave within the requirements of a world leader and do decisions as in a chess game. Other may do the same but not care at all. World leaders come in all shapes just as regular people and will care, not care, be smart, idiots, wise, etc.
What I do think is that going to Afganistan was the correct thing to chase Al-kaida. They have admitted being behind 9/11. There is a point when you must go after those that attack you in your homeland.
Yes, we did exactly that. And nearly a decade later, look where we are.
Remember when the swaggering cowboy said "Bring 'em on"? Actually, the Afghans were in a better position to say that. We got sucked in and will never find a way out.
Yes, we did exactly that. And nearly a decade later, look where we are.
Remember when the swaggering cowboy said "Bring 'em on"? Actually, the Afghans were in a better position to say that. We got sucked in and will never find a way out.
So it is a decade later. If you want a McDonalds fast food solution then you miss the realities of the world situations. Bin Laden is a smart guy and so his group. We just differ on this one. It seems your solution is to simply do nothing when your homeland is attacked, not mine.
I remember a long time ago a comment that supposedly the Israelis said about Americans, that all we do when we are attacked is tie yellow ribbons.
The Israelis years back took swift action and when they used to do that people did not mess with them as they do now that they are more restrained when they are attacked. Look at the results now, they are being harassed a lot more than before. The fear other nations felt is not there anymore and they now bold in their actions against Israel.
So, yes, we may be there for ten years but so far we have shown not to mess with us. Granted our policies may change and little by little terrorists may feel they can go back to their tactics with not much fear for consequences. We will see.
So it is a decade later. If you want a McDonalds fast food solution then you miss the realities of the world situations. Bin Laden is a smart guy and so his group. We just differ on this one. It seems your solution is to simply do nothing when your homeland is attacked, not mine.
To automatically swing back at the punk who slaps you is the McDonalds solution. Sometimes when someone slaps your face, you need to think it through and do the smart thing. Any idiot can go ballistic and think only of wild and mindless retaliation.
A decade is nothing. The people in that part of the world possess a quality that lies beyond the imagination of anyone in America. It is called Patience. They will wait us out.
It's been nearly a decade, and our policymakers haven't even sat down yet and thought about why they attacked us in the first place. Apparently, the morons still think the reason is "because they hate freedom" and because "all they want to do is kill innocent people". It would be funny if it were not so sad.
OK, you have the Berkeley council and mayor telling the US Marines they are unwanted and unwelcomed intruders to their city and actively worked to try to get them evicted from their city. Even the mayor dressed in pink and protested outside their office telling them to get out of his city. You have an organization of public school teachers and college professors whose goal is to try to prevent military recruiters from signing up any of their students. You have college professors who've attacked military recruiters' display. You have ROTC and military recruiting stations attacked and vandalized. Why this violent hatred of the US Military and does this hatred also extend to the country the military defends?
They will change their misguided resolve as soon as things heat up enough in Asia/Pacific for them to get nervous.
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