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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 23 days ago)
35,707 posts, read 18,065,864 times
Reputation: 50772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist
I can't rep you right now, so I'll reply instead.
As for the hand-holding exercise, I find it really creepy. Sorry, not sorry. I'd go along with it strictly to appease the counselor and/or as a small price to pay to avoid repercussions at home.
In the Christmas exercise, the hand holding was so you couldn't separate. You couldn't have one head to mom's and one head to someplace else. (Although in practice you could separate for Christmases if you both were too stubborn to compromise).
But to your point I heard a therapist say once that when a couple argues, they should hold hands. I think that's the most amazing thing - although we don't hold hands when we're arguing, I often picture it in my mind. That takes the goal of the argument from "I want to rip into you" to "Let's figure out how to solve this together and move on". That same therapist said he was tired of hearing people say "a good marriage is HARD WORK". He said although there are periods of difficulty that couples have to learn to cope with, and get through, in general a long marriage should feel comfortable and natural. Or, he said you've married the wrong person or you're doing it wrong if it seems like years and years of hard work.
That sounds like a cheap blow-off on the counselor's part. Any uneducated idiot off the street can tell two people to "speak to each other" and demand compliance. No psychology degree is needed for that. The OP and his wife paid the counselor a lot of money for their wisdom and knowledge. The counselors either refused to provide it or didn't have it to begin with.
The counselor isn't directing them to communicate with one another (versus enlisting the counselor as a go-between to lecture on their individual behalfs) just because. He or she does it to observe where they are going off the rails.
You can't make an assessment/intake without observing behavior. And you can't advise or treat without assessing.
People go to counselors because of problematic behavior...their own or within relational dynamics. If therapists don't get to observe the behavior that is the issue, there isn't much they can do.
Have you ever heard of a marriage counselor taking the husband's side?
Or maybe they do that because they get kickbacks from divorce attorneys.
Given your death of experience with either marriage, marriage counseling, or counseling psych training, certification, and ethics standards, is worth noting that you're 100% pontificating out of your ass, here, with zero actual relevant background or information. Laughable. Just saying.
The OP is upset precisely because he expected counseling to be somebody singling out one party and saying, "Your spouse is right and you're wrong. So shape up." That's not how it works, though.
That sounds like a cheap blow-off on the counselor's part. Any uneducated idiot off the street can tell two people to "speak to each other" and demand compliance. No psychology degree is needed for that. The OP and his wife paid the counselor a lot of money for their wisdom and knowledge. The counselors either refused to provide it or didn't have it to begin with.
The above is kind of how I felt. And in addition, in that one session we went to at my wife's demand, I felt that the counselor's goal was simply for my wife and I to reach a consensus between us, ANY consensus, WHEREVER it is on the scale of fairness.
So if the husband gives in to a demanding wife, that might be a successful case. Or on the contrary, if a submissive wife gives in to a chauvinistic husband, who prohibits her from talking to other men on the street (we all know this type exists), but himself flirts with other women, it seemed that might also be a successful case.
Understand that we only had one session, maybe the good stuff is to come later, but that's how I felt the whole thing was going, so I didn't want to go any more (and even my wife did not choose to continue to go either, although there are more sessions paid by the company, otherwise I would still put up with it and go). From beginning to end the counselor did not offer any view on where either one of us was being unreasonable, and should improve. She just recommended a book to read.
In the Christmas exercise, the hand holding was so you couldn't separate. You couldn't have one head to mom's and one head to someplace else. (Although in practice you could separate for Christmases if you both were too stubborn to compromise).
But to your point I heard a therapist say once that when a couple argues, they should hold hands. I think that's the most amazing thing - although we don't hold hands when we're arguing, I often picture it in my mind. That takes the goal of the argument from "I want to rip into you" to "Let's figure out how to solve this together and move on". That same therapist said he was tired of hearing people say "a good marriage is HARD WORK". He said although there are periods of difficulty that couples have to learn to cope with, and get through, in general a long marriage should feel comfortable and natural. Or, he said you've married the wrong person or you're doing it wrong if it seems like years and years of hard work.
My wife is a Christian so she took me to see the paster before we married. The paster did give an education about how marriage is and this and that, not as elaborate as holding hands to act out how we deal with holidays, but I remember there was similar message. But my wife was a different person back then.
Some of our common work colleagues (we met at work place) had later wondered to me why I would marry her, because in their experience my wife was very demanding and hard to get along with. But at the time I did not feel that. I'll tell ya, my wife was like a cheerful little poodle to me during the 8 years we knew each other and 4 years we dated before getting married. Now she's like a full grown German shepherd.
Probably another topic for another day in the Psychology forum.
Put another log on the fire
Cook me up some bacon and some beans
And go out to the car and change the tire
Wash my socks and sew my old blue jeans
Come on baby you can fill my pipe and then go fetch my slippers
And boil me up another pot of tea
Then put another log on the fire babe
And come and tell me why you're leaving me
Now don't I let you wash the car on Sunday
And don't I warn you when you're gettin' fat
Ain't I a gonna take you fishin' with me someday
Well, a man can't love a woman more than that
Ain't I always nice to your kid sister
Don't I take her driving every night
So sit here at my feet cause I like you when you're sweet
And you know it ain't feminine to fight
My wife is a Christian so she took me to see the paster before we married. The paster did give an education about how marriage is and this and that, not as elaborate as holding hands to act out how we deal with holidays, but I remember there was similar message. But my wife was a different person back then.
Some of our common work colleagues (we met at work place) had later wondered to me why I would marry her, because in their experience my wife was very demanding and hard to get along with. But at the time I did not feel that. I'll tell ya, my wife was like a cheerful little poodle to me during the 8 years we knew each other and 4 years we dated before getting married. Now she's like a full grown German shepherd.
Probably another topic for another day in the Psychology forum.
So living with you has turned her into a beast. Ummmm........I bet we all know why!
The above is kind of how I felt. And in addition, in that one session we went to at my wife's demand, I felt that the counselor's goal was simply for my wife and I to reach a consensus between us, ANY consensus, WHEREVER it is on the scale of fairness.
So if the husband gives in to a demanding wife, that might be a successful case. Or on the contrary, if a submissive wife gives in to a chauvinistic husband, who prohibits her from talking to other men on the street (we all know this type exists), but himself flirts with other women, it seemed that might also be a successful case.
Understand that we only had one session, maybe the good stuff is to come later, but that's how I felt the whole thing was going, so I didn't want to go any more (and even my wife did not choose to continue to go either, although there are more sessions paid by the company, otherwise I would still put up with it and go). From beginning to end the counselor did not offer any view on where either one of us was being unreasonable, and should improve. She just recommended a book to read.
You sound like a right figther. You would rather be right than be happy. You'd rather 'prove' to everyone that you are right and she is wrong, than have a happy marriage and a happy family. You will end up "right", in your mind, and very lonely. But hey, at least you were right!
For there to any chance at all for you to be happy and for your marriage to survive, you need to get into therapy and stay there, with or without your wife.
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