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A woman went to a bar on her own. She met a guy for the first time. She went willingly to the guys home. She willingly drank something that the guy gave her.
What that tells me is the woman was a willing participant and more than likely wanted to have sex.
The guy was very stupid though. This woman more than likely was willing to have sex with him.
Placing a drug in a drink in order to control a person is as far as I know, against the law. It is rape if he uses that drug to have sex with the person.
I doubt that the guy needed to use a drug to have sex with this woman. I think the guy was stupid. He committed a crime.
I am willing to bet that the woman wanted to have sex. Using a drug or anything else to get her to comply was rape.
Yep. She probably did want sex. And it IS rape, if she's rendered unconscious, and it's not consensual. And it can't be consensual if she's passed out.
Are you allowed to say "take care, be aware" to them BEFORE they go out...BEFORE they get raped?
I can't imagine any one to be callous enough to tell someone that after the fact....that's just cruel, and has nothing to do with warning women to be cautious and safe when they go out alone.
Do you really think that no one reading your advice in this thread has already been raped? Yes, it IS just cruel. And you are doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE
No excuses for rape.
Here is what we do know.
A woman went to a bar on her own. She met a guy for the first time. She went willingly to the guys home. She willingly drank something that the guy gave her.
What that tells me is the woman was a willing participant and more than likely wanted to have sex.
The guy was very stupid though. This woman more than likely was willing to have sex with him.
Placing a drug in a drink in order to control a person is as far as I know, against the law. It is rape if he uses that drug to have sex with the person.
I doubt that the guy needed to use a drug to have sex with this woman. I think the guy was stupid. He committed a crime.
I am willing to bet that the woman wanted to have sex. Using a drug or anything else to get her to comply was rape.
This is why the "common sense" safety tips people persist on pushing are largely useless, sometimes even counterproductive. In the scenario you describe, the man could almost certainly have had consensual sex, but clearly he did not WANT consensual sex. He wanted to have a living toy to play with and have complete power over, hence drugging and raping someone who was interested in him. He did not want a willing partner.
I don't totally buy into the common line that rape is ALWAYS about power and violence - I do think there are, for example, some date rape and marital rape type scenarios where it's more-or-less "normal" lust, but the aggressor is too undereducated, inebriated, or uncaring about consent - but think about how screwed-up your wiring has to be to enjoy abusing someone against their will.
People keep harping, for example, on how women wearing "sexy clothing" while walking around at night are putting themselves in danger. This is the kind of pop psych that's just wrong, well known to be so. Criminologists have studied rapists who commit blitz attacks extensively. Clothing IS a factor in many cases, but not the whether it's "sexy" - someone in a mu-mu or sweats is often a more likely target than someone in, say, tight jeans. All other things being equal, they will go for the more accessible target. The rapist is not wired for typical impulses. He is not finding the same things attracting that a normal person would. Ted Bundy attacked women who had dark hair parted in the middle. How could someone predict that parting their hair in the middle would make someone want to rape them?
Now yes, if a woman is savvy, she can do things to make herself less "accessible." But often the difference in accessibility is something outside one's control - say, stature - or something one can't reasonably predict - say, that THIS path walks past a secluded spot the attacker has scoped out, while THAT path doesn't.
It's also simply not reasonable to expect a woman to spend every moment of her entire life dodging criminals. First of all, that's horrible for quality of life. Secondly, even the most vigilant person is eventually going to slip up or make a mistake. The onus belongs firmly on the attackers. And if there IS secondary responsibility, it lies with the people who enable these attackers, by making excuses for them, putting up barriers to reporting, not speaking up when they see something shady going down, etc., not with the survivors.
Do you really think that no one reading your advice in this thread has already been raped? Yes, it IS just cruel. And you are doing it.
.
Why can't you respond to the original question????
That's what I'm doing, and I stand by what I've said.
We're not talking ted bundy,
we're not talking clothing..
we're not talking about the devastation of rape
We're talking about a woman who first got drunk, then went to the home of a stranger, and got raped.....do you not think the rape in this instance could have been prevented???..THAT is the question!
Not whether she deserved it or not...we all know no-one deserves that!
I'll never believe that asking women to be cautious and take care when going out could be "counter productive" in any way.
I think the predator is 100% responsible.
But the victim's actions (actions that increase the probability of an attack) prior to the attack can be described as stupid.
So they are mutually exclusive.
Its so easy for misogynist to call feminist "men haters". I respect men AND women a millon times more than you do, obviously, that are here blaming VICTIMS OF RAPE, and getting offended when people point out how dangerous and ignorant your opinion is.
And, like i said, majority of rapes are commited by either a family member or a boyfriend/husband...how on earth would you blame the victim in those cases?
Newsflash: its NEVER the victims fault.
So my telling a woman to take precautions is a "dangerous and ignorant' opinion?
Sad that you feel that way......
I'm not offended by your ignorance at all......
You're not the first phony misinformed "feminist" who figures their opinions are the only worthy ones.
This thread was not about family members raping, nor husbands or boyfriends raping.......it WAS, until you decided to make it your own) about a woman (full grown) who got drunk in a bar and went home with a complete stranger, and was raped.
Any advice you would give to a woman that she has the right to drink and go home with any stranger who she wants without expecting to be raped is the most dangerous and ignorant advice of all....because sure, if she's that foolish, she can exercise those rights (like the woman OP wrote about) and quite easily suffer for it.....oh yeah...good advice...NOT!~!!!!!
LOL, you respect women?????but not enough to care about there safety right????
You can pretend that cautions aren't necessary, but we both know that's not true.
In a fantasy world where everyone is treated with respect and dignity maybe not.....is that the world you're living in?
What do you do for men and women that explains how much you respect them? (anything)...to the tune of "a million times more"?......another of your fantasies???
For example a friend of a friend went to a bar, met a guy, went back to his house and drank what he gave her, was then claiming she was assaulted but can’t remember the whole night.
When you know there are horrible sexual predators out there, why would you go to a strangers house and also drink something he gave you, not knowing what’s in it. I would think you would have to claim some responsibility for putting yourself in harms way especially these days when there is so much evil out there.
It’s one think to be jumped when walking to your car and another thing to willing go back to a strangers house.
The original post...in case you forgot.
The women (in this scenerio) bears some responsibility.....she's not a baby, nor a little girl....SHE needed to protect herself....it could have all been avoided if she'd taken even the simplest of precautions.
So my telling a woman to take precautions is a "dangerous and ignorant' opinion?
Sad that you feel that way......
I'm not offended by your ignorance at all......
You're not the first phony misinformed "feminist" who figures their opinions are the only worthy ones.
This thread was not about family members raping, nor husbands or boyfriends raping.......it WAS, until you decided to make it your own) about a woman (full grown) who got drunk in a bar and went home with a complete stranger, and was raped.
Any advice you would give to a woman that she has the right to drink and go home with any stranger who she wants without expecting to be raped is the most dangerous and ignorant advice of all....because sure, if she's that foolish, she can exercise those rights (like the woman OP wrote about) and quite easily suffer for it.....oh yeah...good advice...NOT!~!!!!!
LOL, you respect women?????but not enough to care about there safety right????
You can pretend that cautions aren't necessary, but we both know that's not true.
In a fantasy world where everyone is treated with respect and dignity maybe not.....is that the world you're living in?
What do you do for men and women that explains how much you respect them? (anything)...to the tune of "a million times more"?......another of your fantasies???
You, and all this...
You are no different than anyone who says a woman can't go out in public without an escort, can't unbare her face in public, can't bare a leg to go swimming, can't drive by herself, can't attend ANYWHERE by herself...because to do so is to invite trouble, and entices men to do bad things. And it's a sin to entice men to do bad things.
The original post...in case you forgot.
The women (in this scenerio) bears some responsibility.....she's not a baby, nor a little girl....SHE needed to protect herself....it could have all been avoided if she'd taken even the simplest of precautions.
It could all have been avoided if men LEARN NOT TO RAPE
So my telling a woman to take precautions is a "dangerous and ignorant' opinion?
Sad that you feel that way......
I'm not offended by your ignorance at all......
You're not the first phony misinformed "feminist" who figures their opinions are the only worthy ones.
This thread was not about family members raping, nor husbands or boyfriends raping.......it WAS, until you decided to make it your own) about a woman (full grown) who got drunk in a bar and went home with a complete stranger, and was raped.
Any advice you would give to a woman that she has the right to drink and go home with any stranger who she wants without expecting to be raped is the most dangerous and ignorant advice of all....because sure, if she's that foolish, she can exercise those rights (like the woman OP wrote about) and quite easily suffer for it.....oh yeah...good advice...NOT!~!!!!!
LOL, you respect women?????but not enough to care about there safety right????
You can pretend that cautions aren't necessary, but we both know that's not true.
In a fantasy world where everyone is treated with respect and dignity maybe not.....is that the world you're living in?
What do you do for men and women that explains how much you respect them? (anything)...to the tune of "a million times more"?......another of your fantasies???
You dont seem to be able to grasp the simple concept that ITS NEVER THE VICTIMS FAULT. ITS ALL ON THE RAPIST. 1OO%. NO ONE ELSE IS AT FAULT BUT THE RAPIST
Its really a simple concept that you really really really dont want to understand even when its been explained to you a zillion times over and over again
You dont seem to be able to grasp the simple concept that ITS NEVER THE VICTIMS FAULT. ITS ALL ON THE RAPIST. 1OO%. NO ONE ELSE IS AT FAULT BUT THE RAPIST
Its really a simple concept that you really really really dont want to understand even when its been explained to you a zillion times over and over again
oh well
Blindness or ignorance could be forgiven. But this refusal to see a simple point is astounding.
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