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NO - we can't. Because the discussion immediately moves away from the criminal and becomes centered on what the victim did or did not do. Not what the criminal did.
Oh, of course, we KNOW we can't stop HIM...so here lady, here's a scorecard of what YOU did wrong, just so you don't screw up AGAIN in the future. We feel really really bad for you but, but, but here's what YOU did.
There is a benefit to the rest of us for continuing to blame victims of crimes - here are just a couple theories:
Just World Hypothesis
The just world hypothesis is based on an individual’s belief that the world is a safe,
just place where people get what they deserve. These individuals believe that the social system that affects them is fair, legitimate, and justifiable. The perception of these individuals is that good things happen to good people, and bad things to bad people. In this way, one who believes in a just world maintains their belief because there is not an innocent, suffering victim, but someone who “deserves” their misfortune.
Invulnerability Theory
Literature on Invulnerability Theory claims that those who subscribe to the theory blame victims as a means to protect their own feelings of invulnerability. The Invulnerability Theory is based on subscribers blaming the victim in order to feel safe themselves. Even friends and family members of crime victims may blame the victim in order to reassure themselves.
A common statement would be:
“She was raped because she walked home alone in the dark. I would never do that, so I won’t be raped.”
The theory states that victims are a reminder of our own vulnerability. Individuals do not want to consider the possibility of losing control over their life or body; by deciding that a victim brought on the attack themselves, they create a false sense of security.
I think you're right on target regarding why we blame the victim. In a related tendency, when there's a plane crash we go bizarre extremes sometimes in a search for the explanation, I think in the belief that if we just do 100% perfect maintenance/training/scheduling and ignore that human error often contributes to crashes, then we'll feel safe and in control.
I will admit, though, that an absolute insistence on not talking about how to avoid risks seems dangerously short sighted. We often talk about the ills of binary thinking. This topic gets a little sick at times and I think binary thinking may be the cause.
So I can say to my daughters that rapists are responsible for rape and their victims are just that, innocent victims, while adding that I hope they stay away from the bar district where the serial rapist is operating. I don't see that as a contradiction or a concession, except perhaps to common sense. I mean, train pilots well and do the maintenance.
Before I lose my mind, let it be known that if a woman is raped, THE RESPONSIBILITY IS 100% ON THE ONE DOING THE RAPING...not due to being drunk, wearing high heels, a short skirt, or going to a mans apartment. 😡😡😖😖😖
NO - we can't. Because the discussion immediately moves away from the criminal and becomes centered on what the victim did or did not do. Not what the criminal did.
Because people can't seem to grasp the difference between blaming the victim and examining the contributors. If you don't want to have that conversation with the victim, that's understandable. But it's a huge mistake to not have it at all. Not having it and demonizing and catastrophizing any attempts to discuss exacerbates trauma.
Because people can't seem to grasp the difference between blaming the victim and examining the contributors. If you don't want to have that conversation with the victim, that's understandable. But it's a huge mistake to not have it at all. Not having it and demonizing and catastrophizing any attempts to discuss exacerbates trauma.
Ok..I'll play.
You've been open about having been assaulted not one but four times. For each occasion please list your contributing factors and explain what you did not learn after the first time.
It's also interesting because oftentimes, people assume that a victim must have somehow contributed to her assault (not necessarily place blame, just factors we've been discussing here). They ask things like, well were you drunk? Were you walking alone at night? You let your friends leave you alone? What were you wearing? before even knowing any of the facts. There's this assumption that she must have done something. And I agree with reneeh63's recent reasons for why people have this mentality.
This discussion isn't just about trying to give helpful advice, it's based on the assumption that there truly are ways to prevent rape and if you WERE raped anyway, you must not have done something or conversely must have done something. This is the idea behind the "what were you wearing?" display, to show that a rape victim could have been wearing normal jeans and a t shirt. Or a kid's sundress, because little girls get assaulted, too. Because asking that question is off base, assuming that it was something she wore or didn't wear that was part of the problem. This addresses what is often an instant thought in many people's minds when they hear someone was raped - well what was she wearing? And I don't even think people mean anything bad by it at all, so this isn't some attack on anyone making suggestions or saying they think a certain way. It's part of an overall culture in this society - yes, rape culture, the term that so many hate because they like to pretend it's not a thing and it's something made up by feminists. This very discussion can be blamed on rape culture.
No one really needs to be TOLD that getting very drunk leaves you vulnerable. We all know this. But we're all human, we make mistakes. Someone may know this but still let their guard down and be assaulted. The advice really just isn't helpful, at the end of the day, because women have heard it all before time and time again and continue to.
It's also interesting because oftentimes, people assume that a victim must have somehow contributed to her assault (not necessarily place blame, just factors we've been discussing here). They ask things like, well were you drunk? Were you walking alone at night? You let your friends leave you alone? What were you wearing? before even knowing any of the facts. There's this assumption that she must have done something. And I agree with reneeh63's recent reasons for why people have this mentality.
See...I can't remember any time I've heard a single person speak that way in response to a rape. I've never heard of one described in person but every single other time, such as on this website and on the internet, it's always a combination of pure sympathy and extreme anger toward the perpetrator...so I'm not sure where this idea that people blame the victim oftentimes is coming from. Where do you see that sort of thing? Is this more something where people get some kind of negative feedback from those close to them or something we wouldn't be able to see easily online but would have to hear more personal stories or something like that?
Quote:
This discussion isn't just about trying to give helpful advice, it's based on the assumption that there truly are ways to prevent rape and if you WERE raped anyway, you must not have done something or conversely must have done something. This is the idea behind the "what were you wearing?" display, to show that a rape victim could have been wearing normal jeans and a t shirt. Or a kid's sundress, because little girls get assaulted, too. Because asking that question is off base, assuming that it was something she wore or didn't wear that was part of the problem. This addresses what is often an instant thought in many people's minds when they hear someone was raped - well what was she wearing? And I don't even think people mean anything bad by it at all, so this isn't some attack on anyone making suggestions or saying they think a certain way. It's part of an overall culture in this society - yes, rape culture, the term that so many hate because they like to pretend it's not a thing and it's something made up by feminists. This very discussion can be blamed on rape culture.
No one really needs to be TOLD that getting very drunk leaves you vulnerable. We all know this. But we're all human, we make mistakes. Someone may know this but still let their guard down and be assaulted. The advice really just isn't helpful, at the end of the day, because women have heard it all before time and time again and continue to.
Before I lose my mind, let it be known that if a woman is raped, THE RESPONSIBILITY IS 100% ON THE ONE DOING THE RAPING...not due to being drunk, wearing high heels, a short skirt, or going to a mans apartment. ����������
I think most people on this thread already know that. I think the primary issue is that we have two different groups of people who have the exact same opinions but merely are strongly opposed to the choices of words used by the other half. Even with the thread-starter, through I think their language could have been improved, I suspect they have the exact same basic opinions as almost everyone else on this thread.
We have the one side who don't like anything that sounds like it might imply that the person thinks women the victim is at fault, so when in doubt they claim the person is blaming the victim. We have the other side who is worried about people living in a fantasy land where people can't make certain choices that reduce risk.
In reality, I doubt anyone on this thread genuinely thinks being raped is the victim's fault, even if they actually state that they think it's the victim's fault. Such an opinions just don't make any sense.
Likewise, I doubt anyone on this thread genuinely thinks people can't do things to decrease risk. Again, such opinions wouldn't make any sense.
What I'm curious about is why people care so much about what words are used rather than what the people probably actually mean.
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