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Gotta say, I sort of feel where PTC was coming from, somewhat at least.
After the stuff I personally experienced, the one incident of my own and those of others I've known in my life, in a way falling back to some of the "Just World/Invulnerability" thinking felt soothing and empowering. Like I relived my own experience a million times, I picked apart every moment of it, I was so, so determined to learn something from my mistakes. Somehow that redeems it. Like sure, it sucked, but I got a bit o' learnin' out of it! And wisdom is precious, right? So. And when doing this, no, I didn't consider it victim blaming because a.) I didn't think of myself as a victim, nor do I want to...and b.) blame is utterly beside the point. I'm not interested in blame. But I was (and still am) interested in doing whatever I can to be safer in the future.
So there isn't necessarily something wrong with talking about that sort of thing, but as I've said before, people need to be careful when it comes to expecting someone to take responsibility if they might have been able to prevent something, because hindsight is 20/20 and unfortunately this approach DOES get criminals off the hook, both in real courts and in the courts of public opinion.
It is one thing to want to be empowered by consciously doing what you can to be wise and safe. It is quite another to engage in public discourse that actively contributes to discrediting and silencing victims, and exonerating criminals. Context matters.
I hear this quite often from people, is there a reason you don’t consider yourself a victim? Have you ever, at any point after the rape, considered yourself a victim? I’m genuinely curious because like I said, this is a mindset I see a lot. And why don’t you want to consider yourself a victim? What do you call yourself then, in relation to what happened to you? If anything? No worries if you don’t want to answer.
Also, I can’t remember if you said so earlier, did the police ever find the man who attacked you and if so, was he prosecuted?
I hear this quite often from people, is there a reason you don’t consider yourself a victim? Have you ever, at any point after the rape, considered yourself a victim? I’m genuinely curious because like I said, this is a mindset I see a lot. And why don’t you want to consider yourself a victim? What do you call yourself then, in relation to what happened to you? If anything? No worries if you don’t want to answer.
Also, I can’t remember if you said so earlier, did the police ever find the man who attacked you and if so, was he prosecuted?
I never went to the police, nor did anyone else, so no they did not find him since they weren't looking for him. I voluntarily slept with plenty of guys when I was a teenager, and a few of them were adults in their 20's. This, I filed away as just an unwise choice. If anything, it nudged me towards being more "sapiosexual" and leaning toward those with whom I could have rational conversations, and that I felt would behave differently in a similar situation. I chocked a lot of his refusal to stop, up to his semi-drunk state and to his different cultural background (rural Mexican macho culture.) I mean, the guy my Mom married told us about how his father once hit his mother hard enough to give her slight brain damage and she'd occasionally get confused and wander off and they'd have to go find her in the woods. But hey. He had 90 goats!
I really don't think the man believed he did anything wrong. I doubt if he understood (or cared) how I felt about it.
To me, a victim is someone who lives in fear and trauma, has nightmares, has been damaged and carries that damage around with them...maybe they heal, but they always have an internal emotional and/or psychological scar. I didn't feel that way immediately after, or years later, or ever. I felt disgusted, and annoyed with myself for having suggested my Mom and I go out that night, for having flirted with him, for having gone along with the "fun" until suddenly it was not fun anymore. I didn't feel that I had any lasting harm done to me. It was just an unfortunate incident. Maybe if I were the kind of person who only had a few sexual partners, or made a big deal of sex at all, I would have been more invested in such a thing, but I just didn't (and still don't) care all that much. I prefer to own that I was young and stupid and had some things to learn, I learned some stuff and I moved on easily. I'm sure if I'd chosen to fight, and had been beaten up and really forcibly forced, then I might feel a lot differently about it.
I don't call myself anything in relation to what happened to me, at least not in regards to THAT. It wasn't a significant enough event in my life to be part of my identity at all. And perhaps that's another big reason I prefer not to use that word, and others feel the same. You don't want to incorporate the memory into your concept of self.
Again...I will call myself a survivor of abuse where it comes down to my ex husband, but though nothing he did to me except for the threats against my life perhaps, were illegal, and he never struck me or raped me, there is damage there I may spend a lifetime unraveling. 18 years of psychological abuse makes one date rape look downright trivial, in my book. And no, I do not believe that the date rape incident shaped me in any way to inclination toward promiscuity or poor partner selection. Those things have other unrelated causes that I am very well aware of.
EDIT: For what it's worth? I stopped desiring my husband as the years went by and he showed me more of who he really was, but I wanted to be a good wife, a good mother, and keep my family together. I tried very hard to be a good wife, with everything that means, including what I came to silently call "husband maintenance" in my mind. I would do what I needed to while thinking of other things, what do they say..."close your eyes and think of England" or whatever... And there were times after this, where I felt rather disgusted as I did following the date rape, only worse, if anything, because I also felt shame that I did not want the man I was supposed to want. I didn't want anyone.
I talk about this...because to me, that's what "victim" feels like. Not something you can just wash off and put behind you, but something you have to figure out how to heal from, something that messes with how you see yourself. If that makes sense?
Last edited by Sonic_Spork; 10-26-2017 at 03:28 PM..
It is one thing to want to be empowered by consciously doing what you can to be wise and safe. It is quite another to engage in public discourse that actively contributes to discrediting and silencing victims, and exonerating criminals. Context matters.
I never went to the police, nor did anyone else, so no they did not find him since they weren't looking for him. I voluntarily slept with plenty of guys when I was a teenager, and a few of them were adults in their 20's. This, I filed away as just an unwise choice. If anything, it nudged me towards being more "sapiosexual" and leaning toward those with whom I could have rational conversations, and that I felt would behave differently in a similar situation. I chocked a lot of his refusal to stop, up to his semi-drunk state and to his different cultural background (rural Mexican macho culture.) I mean, the guy my Mom married told us about how his father once hit his mother hard enough to give her slight brain damage and she'd occasionally get confused and wander off and they'd have to go find her in the woods. But hey. He had 90 goats!
I really don't think the man believed he did anything wrong. I doubt if he understood (or cared) how I felt about it.
To me, a victim is someone who lives in fear and trauma, has nightmares, has been damaged and carries that damage around with them...maybe they heal, but they always have an internal emotional and/or psychological scar. I didn't feel that way immediately after, or years later, or ever. I felt disgusted, and annoyed with myself for having suggested my Mom and I go out that night, for having flirted with him, for having gone along with the "fun" until suddenly it was not fun anymore. I didn't feel that I had any lasting harm done to me. It was just an unfortunate incident. Maybe if I were the kind of person who only had a few sexual partners, or made a big deal of sex at all, I would have been more invested in such a thing, but I just didn't (and still don't) care all that much. I prefer to own that I was young and stupid and had some things to learn, I learned some stuff and I moved on easily. I'm sure if I'd chosen to fight, and had been beaten up and really forcibly forced, then I might feel a lot differently about it.
I don't call myself anything in relation to what happened to me, at least not in regards to THAT. It wasn't a significant enough event in my life to be part of my identity at all. And perhaps that's another big reason I prefer not to use that word, and others feel the same. You don't want to incorporate the memory into your concept of self.
Again...I will call myself a survivor of abuse where it comes down to my ex husband, but though nothing he did to me except for the threats against my life perhaps, were illegal, and he never struck me or raped me, there is damage there I may spend a lifetime unraveling. 18 years of psychological abuse makes one date rape look downright trivial, in my book. And no, I do not believe that the date rape incident shaped me in any way to inclination toward promiscuity or poor partner selection. Those things have other unrelated causes that I am very well aware of.
EDIT: For what it's worth? I stopped desiring my husband as the years went by and he showed me more of who he really was, but I wanted to be a good wife, a good mother, and keep my family together. I tried very hard to be a good wife, with everything that means, including what I came to silently call "husband maintenance" in my mind. I would do what I needed to while thinking of other things, what do they say..."close your eyes and think of England" or whatever... And there were times after this, where I felt rather disgusted as I did following the date rape, only worse, if anything, because I also felt shame that I did not want the man I was supposed to want. I didn't want anyone.
I talk about this...because to me, that's what "victim" feels like. Not something you can just wash off and put behind you, but something you have to figure out how to heal from, something that messes with how you see yourself. If that makes sense?
I got you. Sorry, I mistook you for another poster who earlier described a very violent assault, resulting in a bite mark scar on her shoulder.
I understand your position and why you feel that way, and thanks for sharing.
I hear this quite often from people, is there a reason you don’t consider yourself a victim? Have you ever, at any point after the rape, considered yourself a victim? I’m genuinely curious because like I said, this is a mindset I see a lot. And why don’t you want to consider yourself a victim? What do you call yourself then, in relation to what happened to you? If anything? No worries if you don’t want to answer.
Also, I can’t remember if you said so earlier, did the police ever find the man who attacked you and if so, was he prosecuted?
That was me who posted. Bite mark. A victim? If you go by the dictionary definition of a victim... yes.
Victim: a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
synonym: sufferer, injured party, casualty; More
a person who is tricked or duped.
It happened. I was ( if you go by the definition) victimized and that will never change unless they change the definition of "victim". I met all the criteria. Harmed, injured, and " almost" killed ( not for his lack of trying.)
Do I walk around 24/7 post rape feeling like a victim? No. Being the " victim " does not define me, it's just a descriptive word used for what happened to me.
What empowered me was standing up and pointing my finger at the man who raped me, not just keeping my mouth shut and sucking it up.
What empowered me was getting this guy put someplace where he'd not be able to " victimize "me again or any other women for at least as long as was in jail.
What empowered me was not being afraid to tell the truth no matter what I would have to endure for speaking out. ( I was forewarned.)
During the very " short " trial it came to the attention of the court that he'd been identified by a 14 year old girl as the guy who raped and beat her. Before attacking me, he'd just done 5 years for assaulting a 58 year old woman. When he gets finished doing time for what he did to me, he'll go back and answer for what he did to the 14 year old.
Another poster said she was raped 4 times and didn't say anything to anyone..
she also ( to my way of thinking) seems to feel that using "v" word is a sign of weakness... they can't get over it and he lives in the head.
Where's the strength in keeping your mouth shut? Where's the strength in not being able to admit that they were a victim? It happened and it was wrong!
How is it empowering to let someone harm you and just walking away? Sorry I just don't get it.
That was me who posted. Bite mark. A victim? If you go by the dictionary definition of a victim... yes.
Victim: a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
synonym: sufferer, injured party, casualty; More
a person who is tricked or duped.
It happened. I was ( if you go by the definition) victimized and that will never change unless they change the definition of "victim". I met all the criteria. Harmed, injured, and " almost" killed ( not for his lack of trying.)
Do I walk around 24/7 post rape feeling like a victim? No. Being the " victim " does not define me, it's just a descriptive word used for what happened to me.
What empowered me was standing up and pointing my finger at the man who raped me, not just keeping my mouth shut and sucking it up.
What empowered me was getting this guy put someplace where he'd not be able to " victimize "me again or any other women for at least as long as was in jail.
What empowered me was not being afraid to tell the truth no matter what I would have to endure for speaking out. ( I was forewarned.)
During the very " short " trial it came to the attention of the court that he'd been identified by a 14 year old girl as the guy who raped and beat her. Before attacking me, he'd just done 5 years for assaulting a 58 year old woman. When he gets finished doing time for what he did to me, he'll go back and answer for what he did to the 14 year old.
Another poster said she was raped 4 times and didn't say anything to anyone..
she also ( to my way of thinking) seems to feel that using "v" word is a sign of weakness... they can't get over it and he lives in the head.
Where's the strength in keeping your mouth shut? Where's the strength in not being able to admit that they were a victim? It happened and it was wrong!
How is it empowering to let someone harm you and just walking away? Sorry I just don't get it.
Thank you for answering.
I imagine it would be very empowering (and satisfying) to report someone, watch him be charged and convicted, and then sentenced. But unfortunately, not every rapist is convicted, and for various reasons. Maybe this is part of the fear people have in not coming forward. Going through all that, maybe it would and does feel like it was all for nothing if there's no conviction.
I don't understand why stuff like this is gender specific.
So what you are saying OP, is if you mouth off some snark to a guy in bar, and he knocks your teeth out, YOU bare a large part of the responsibility. Got it.
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I imagine it would be very empowering (and satisfying) to report someone, watch him be charged and convicted, and then sentenced. But unfortunately, not every rapist is convicted, and for various reasons. Maybe this is part of the fear people have in not coming forward. Going through all that, maybe it would and does feel like it was all for nothing if there's no conviction.
But rather than just chalking it up to ... oh well, You take your best shot whether or not it works out in your favor. To me, not saying anything is akin to enabling them. What's to stop them from raping and hurting someone else if there are no consequences? Even though the evidence against him was overwhelming. They found his DNA in me , on me , on my clothes and under my nails. My DNA ( in the form of my blood ) was collected from his clothes, and boots. There was also an eye witness ( done get me started on that a-hole) and they had my 100% sure he was the guy identification. Still.... I was warned that even will all of that the defense would try to discredit me and put my life under a microscope.
My poor judgment created the perfect storm for an assault.
1: readers digest version: young parent. We needed food. Husband tired.I opted to walk to store 2 miles away. Snow and ice.. guy offers to take me to the store..it was a main route.
Pull into lot..He assaults me. I try the door handle...it's broke,door won't unlock.
Shoppers 'assumed' it was a family tiff. No one helped despite my screams...because you know... ' not my business attitude. '
I bashed the door open with my legs..and ran into that store. Shivering and distraught. Police were called. I was humiliated yet again. They concluded that I probably encouraged this man's gropes. Only one person in the parking lot spoke to the officers..and they said...it wasn't their place to get between a couple. The officers did take me home. You bet I take ownership of my poor judgement. I don't and never will take ownership of this guy's actions. He had a choice...and a passenger door that probably didn't close at all after that!
I would years later take defense courses. Learned to be accountable ...and be aware. Sure preventing assaults is key...again. awareness and preparedness.
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