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I am not an animal unable to control base instincts. Kindly refrain from invalidating and insulting my intelligence and my lived experience, as well as that of others on this board, by making such sweeping generalizations and attempting to tell us who we are, how we think, and how we behave, thank you.
Seconded.
I dated a few different guys in high school that I was crazy physically attracted to. Know what we didn't do? Have sex.
My hyper-strict parents had told me in very explicit terms what would happen to me if I got pregnant. It involved a move to another state and an unwed mother's home. And the withdrawal of their love and respect for me. I would basically be removed from the family.
So using my "cognition," I waited until I was 18 and my body--where it lived and what happened to it--was no longer under their control. It was an easy decision that I never struggled with.
My father would have been apoplectic if I came home pregnant! The possibility was never discussed but I think it was obvious to everyone I was not sexually active. And I had the sense to know what reaction I could predict if I did something that irresponsible. I mean, a B- on a test practically earned me a beating!
Once I went off to college though, different story.
My older sister was sexually active in high school but used two forms of birth control, pills + condoms. And her boyfriend was a great student and very conscientious guy. Definitely not a psychopath.
As to "instincts"... I believe that nurture is more powerful than nature, but that it is because of our nature that this is true. We are by nature a highly social animal with a highly developed brain, but one that takes an exceptionally long time to fully mature. So nurture is critical, the programming we get not only from parents but all "other humans" messages and information as we live in the world shapes much of what we do.
If one's childhood trains them to tolerate very unpleasant behavior from others, passively, then one will probably not easily set a boundary if pressured by, say, a "bad boy" pursuing sex.
My own programming is a bit like the plot of many Guillermo del Toro films... The monster isn't the monster. It's the pretty and popular ones who are the most cruel and terrifying. Despite becoming an attractive teenage girl, my inner hated, shy, nerdy child is at my core, and still has a lot to say about who I can trust and who I can't.
I will likely always see a long haired metal fan guy as a misunderstood sweetheart, and a clean cut frat boy as a possible sexual predator. The weirder someone looks, the safer I expect that they are to be around. If only because I expect nonconformists to question "how it is" and not necessarily fall back on typical cultural entitlements and excuses, and I expect real monsters to hide in plain sight.
I think that most would call those sporting nonconformist fashion at the high school level, "bad boys." Maybe in some ways they were. But not in the ways I cared about.
People have different mating "strategies.". There are those that follow a fast track, many offspring and not so much investment, and there is a slow track, few offspring but high investment.
It might sound like this kind of reduces people to animals that simply follow their instincts rather than actively making decisions about their life path. Though its also not necessarily saying people don't actively choose one path over another.
As for me, my instincts tell me to run and hide from danger, rather than run to it because its sexy or exciting or something.
Despite this I haven't been immune to a bad boy (psychopath?) getting his hooks into me from time to time, but whenever this happens its a horrible experience I take a long time to recover from, and must be coaxed out of hiding only once I am thoroughly convinced its safe again.
I don't know if this is either nature or nurture. I think once people are beyond young childhood the personality is more or less formed, due to a complex combination of factors. BOTH nature and nurture. While the basic personality is formed, imo, of course it continues to change a bit over time as people continue to have experiences and continue to learn. There is also neuroplasticity.
If I were unable to overcome my "instincts", there would be trail of dead bodies behind me.
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People have different mating "strategies.". There are those that follow a fast track, many offspring and not so much investment, and there is a slow track, few offspring but high investment.
It might sound like this kind of reduces people to animals that simply follow their instincts rather than actively making decisions about their life path. Though its also not necessarily saying people don't actively choose one path over another.
As for me, my instincts tell me to run and hide from danger, rather than run to it because its sexy or exciting or something.
Despite this I haven't been immune to a bad boy (psychopath?) getting his hooks into me from time to time, but whenever this happens its a horrible experience I take a long time to recover from, and must be coaxed out of hiding only once I am thoroughly convinced its safe again.
I don't know if this is either nature or nurture. I think once people are beyond young childhood the personality is more or less formed, due to a complex combination of factors. BOTH nature and nurture. While the basic personality is formed, imo, of course it continues to change a bit over time as people continue to have experiences and continue to learn. There is also neuroplasticity.
But what looks like safety or danger to you or I may not be the same thing. Because of experiences we have in our formative years.
Mating strategy though?
Lots of gay people are not on some kind of breeding chessboard. Lots of people are also deciding to be child free, since we have the medical technology to do that and still have romance, sex, intimacy, connection. Because our rational minds know that having kids devours a ton of whatever resources you might have.
If it's not about making babies and it's not about getting off, because most of us can do that just fine by ourselves, then what is it about?
Companionship. Craving for touch and connection, intimacy and the safety to be vulnerable, the validation of our worth... And inclusion of sex has always been the default there, it feels good, and does cool stuff to our brain chemistry. Powerful social reasons, and certainly biological motivators. Which may have developed in the most primitive lizard brains of the earliest proto-mammals to motivate them to reproduce, but which certainly have other strong reasons to remain popular even among those who are strategizing NOT to reproduce.
But what looks like safety or danger to you or I may not be the same thing. Because of experiences we have in our formative years.
Of course! And that is why nurture is also important. Nurture comes from the experiences we have. Touching a hot stove and getting burned and then avoiding hot stoves after that is an example of nurture.
A person who lacks the nerves to feel pain upon touching the stove won't be fazed by the hot stove and may touch it again and again. Thats nature (not the best example though).
Quote:
Mating strategy though?
Lots of gay people are not on some kind of breeding chessboard. Lots of people are also deciding to be child free, since we have the medical technology to do that and still have romance, sex, intimacy, connection. Because our rational minds know that having kids devours a ton of whatever resources you might have.
If it's not about making babies and it's not about getting off, because most of us can do that just fine by ourselves, then what is it about?
Companionship. Craving for touch and connection, intimacy and the safety to be vulnerable, the validation of our worth... And inclusion of sex has always been the default there, it feels good, and does cool stuff to our brain chemistry. Powerful social reasons, and certainly biological motivators. Which may have developed in the most primitive lizard brains of the earliest proto-mammals to motivate them to reproduce, but which certainly have other strong reasons to remain popular even among those who are strategizing NOT to reproduce.
I was using a heteronormative example because it fit in with OPs question. Some of those teenage girls dating psychopaths might be on the fast track strategy. My good childhood friend had two kids as a teenager. Several girls from my high school got pregnant their freshman year. Either gave their babies up for adoption or had their moms raise them while they continued to party (and get pregnant again).
Why did they choose this while I, for example, didn't have sex till I was 20.
Because the bad boys were sexy to them? (The guys were often drug dealers or gang members).
Why did the bad boys scare me but were sexy to them?
Or maybe they were coerced or forced?
You gave your own story, Sonic. You find people who look like they are a bit out there to be more safe and trustworthy than say a preppy or straight edge looking guy?
Is a preppy or straight edge looking guy more likely to be unsafe or a psychopath rather than say a guy with long hair tatts and piercings? I don't know the answer to that.
Last edited by moongirl00; 04-28-2022 at 01:50 PM..
Also ick that he looked at them long enough to identify every single girl in the class of 98 students. He must have been watching them for years to know all their faces and bodies.
Okay fine, I made a mistake by generalizing. I apologize for making a generalization.
When our youngest son was attending this highschool, my wife and I attended a number of school events where we saw most of the students. When my son showed me the photos on his PC I recognized dozens of the faces, as being local girls in his highschool.
I got the impression from my son, that in his perception of the culture it was the norm for all the girls to act in that manner.
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