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I can buy a gutter end cap for a couple bucks and install it myself in minutes, so that part doesn't really bother me. What I am wondering about is the whole permit and inspection process. I have been told by more than one contractor that the more inspections applied before the issuance, the more money can be charged for the permit. Which appears to be true because in looking at garage permits, for example, a permit with 28 inspections does cost more than a permit with 22 inspections. So lets say I pay more for a garage permit because it has 6 more inspections than some other guys garage permit. At the end the contractor knows they don't really have to worry about a couple of minor inspections because the county isn't going to do anything about a couple of minor fails. Yet, I had to pay more for those few extra inspections listed on the permit. Somehow this doesn't seem right.
Also, in my example for a pool cage, the original cage permit was $94. The 2 "fail with fees" totaled $100 ($6 more than the original permit). Kind of stupid if the county just lets those 2 penalty fees go uncollected. Which brings me back to my question, what does the county do next ? Do they go after the contractor and collect the $100 ? Or just let it go because the "fails" are deemed minor ?
I'm just guessing here, but you'll probably go out and get an end cap, and in a month, you'll forget about the whole thing, till you need gutter work done again.
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I can buy a gutter end cap for a couple bucks and install it myself in minutes, so that part doesn't really bother me. What I am wondering about is the whole permit and inspection process. I have been told by more than one contractor that the more inspections applied before the issuance, the more money can be charged for the permit. Which appears to be true because in looking at garage permits, for example, a permit with 28 inspections does cost more than a permit with 22 inspections. So lets say I pay more for a garage permit because it has 6 more inspections than some other guys garage permit. At the end the contractor knows they don't really have to worry about a couple of minor inspections because the county isn't going to do anything about a couple of minor fails. Yet, I had to pay more for those few extra inspections listed on the permit. Somehow this doesn't seem right.
Also, in my example for a pool cage, the original cage permit was $94. The 2 "fail with fees" totaled $100 ($6 more than the original permit). Kind of stupid if the county just lets those 2 penalty fees go uncollected. Which brings me back to my question, what does the county do next ? Do they go after the contractor and collect the $100 ? Or just let it go because the "fails" are deemed minor ?
I don't know if this applies in your case, maybe some of the other builder/contractor types here might know, but when I read your posts about your "fail with fees" designation of your pool cage permit, it looks like this is still an open permit? That what's required is a final "pass" inspection and the permit closed out by the permit-holder. Or payment of that penalty, and then the work done, and the permit closed out?
If that's true, I don't know what Charlotte County does about those but I can relate our experience in Miami-Dade County with open permits we had, unbeknownst to us until they turned up on a title search when we put our house in Miami up for sale. These were three permits taken out by the contractor who rebuilt our house there after Hurricane Andrew, and not closed out- obviously an oversight because in looking at what they were, one was a duplicate ( windows) permit, and the other two we had paper copies of final inspection records for- one a structural permit that had been signed off by a private structural engineer and at a later date, a county inspector, and a fence permit that had also been signed as final by a county inspector. Didn't matter that we had those papers, the county doesn't do paper now and those were 20 years old, they have their process and expected that we would go round robin and take weeks/months to visit the county building code folks, open new permit$$$, have the place reinspected and the new permits closed out (permits were $600 each). Or, we could pay a local contractor to slide through this process much quicker than we could, using his contacts to "take care" of things- this to the tune of $2500 ( I kept thinking that took care of a few bribes) so we could sell the house. Because we didn't have a few months, that's what we did.
A racket? Of course! But what happens with open permits in Dade County is nothing, until you go to sell your house. It might be that Charlotte County does more to get that type of thing off their books within a time frame, or maybe, like liens that aren't resolved after a year, they just go away?
I don't know if this applies in your case, maybe some of the other builder/contractor types here might know, but when I read your posts about your "fail with fees" designation of your pool cage permit, it looks like this is still an open permit? That what's required is a final "pass" inspection and the permit closed out by the permit-holder. Or payment of that penalty, and then the work done, and the permit closed out?
If that's true, I don't know what Charlotte County does about those but I can relate our experience in Miami-Dade County with open permits we had, unbeknownst to us until they turned up on a title search when we put our house in Miami up for sale. These were three permits taken out by the contractor who rebuilt our house there after Hurricane Andrew, and not closed out- obviously an oversight because in looking at what they were, one was a duplicate ( windows) permit, and the other two we had paper copies of final inspection records for- one a structural permit that had been signed off by a private structural engineer and at a later date, a county inspector, and a fence permit that had also been signed as final by a county inspector. Didn't matter that we had those papers, the county doesn't do paper now and those were 20 years old, they have their process and expected that we would go round robin and take weeks/months to visit the county building code folks, open new permit$$$, have the place reinspected and the new permits closed out (permits were $600 each). Or, we could pay a local contractor to slide through this process much quicker than we could, using his contacts to "take care" of things- this to the tune of $2500 ( I kept thinking that took care of a few bribes) so we could sell the house. Because we didn't have a few months, that's what we did.
A racket? Of course! But what happens with open permits in Dade County is nothing, until you go to sell your house. It might be that Charlotte County does more to get that type of thing off their books within a time frame, or maybe, like liens that aren't resolved after a year, they just go away?
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Ahh, thanks, this is the sort of info I was wondering about. The story you relate is exactly the sort of things I have heard at a couple of social get-togethers. You're right, the "fail with fees" have left this permit open or AKA "not finaled". In the county's master list it is shown as "expired" instead of closed and in the permit itself it shows the 2 failures that are blocking it from the "end of process". In looking back through the county's master list of various permits (garage, deck, carport, etc.) I find an occasional expired permit. Maybe those expired permits will some day come back to haunt people similar to your experience.
Also, what is a little bothersome about all of this is the fact that if I didn't have some computer skills and the ability to roam around the county web site, I would have no clue about the pool cage permit referred to in my OP. I can't even tell you how many folks we know around here who don't own a computer. People like that would not have an inkling of the status of a permit.
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After Talking with CC Inspector and straightening out an issue I had concerning an expired permit.. It Never Goes away.. and you have to pay to reopen the permit, then re-inspect to prove the work has been done etc etc etc to get the final and close it out..The World is digital and more and more places require home inspections before the sale. The next sale will require another inspection and the house better be what it was last time or you better have all the proper permits signed off etc etc etc ..Its Not A Bad Thing.. No more redneck hammer to fit and paint to match, trash, being sold to unsuspecting buyers.. How many of these No Garage....hummmmm 3 and 4 bedroom homes with only 1 or 1-1/2 baths remodels, do you think had permits? How many do you think were built to code?
After Talking with CC Inspector and straightening out an issue I had concerning an expired permit.. It Never Goes away.. and you have to pay to reopen the permit, then re-inspect to prove the work has been done etc etc etc to get the final and close it out..The World is digital and more and more places require home inspections before the sale. The next sale will require another inspection and the house better be what it was last time or you better have all the proper permits signed off etc etc etc ..Its Not A Bad Thing..
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What would be a shame is if a customer pays a contractor to do a job, it is the contractor who pulls the permit and is responsible for completing everything to be in compliance with the inspection points. The county communicates with the contractor only, not the customer. So if that permit is never closed, how would the customer know of the potential pitfall down the road ? The job may appear complete to the customer. A lot of people have zero knowledge of building permits. They only know that they have hired a company to do a job.
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What would be a shame is if a customer pays a contractor to do a job, it is the contractor who pulls the permit and is responsible for completing everything to be in compliance with the inspection points. The county communicates with the contractor only, not the customer. So if that permit is never closed, how would the customer know of the potential pitfall down the road ? The job may appear complete to the customer. A lot of people have zero knowledge of building permits. They only know that they have hired a company to do a job.
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The permits are displayed at the job site, and as such can be viewed by the customer. But the permit information is also available on the County licensing and permitting site- one can do permit searches by address, or the license number of the contractor for any given location. Go about halfway down the page on the site linked below, and you can choose what you would like to find. Although that page shows instructions to sign in with a password, you don't have to do so to access the search functions on the page.
You can choose what you want to search for by accessing the "general search" dropdown menu in the middle of the page.
You can see the number and type of permits pulled and by whom, and the disposition of each permit.
There should be IMHO some kind of personal contact between CC and The property owner when there is an issue such as expired permit no completion/final inspection.. Are They CC allowing people to live in uncompleted homes?
I know for a fact they have recently allowed or overlooked people living in homes with no water supply..
There should be IMHO some kind of personal contact between CC and The property owner when there is an issue such as expired permit no completion/final inspection.. Are They CC allowing people to live in uncompleted homes?
I know for a fact they have recently allowed or overlooked people living in homes with no water supply..
It's very easy to access the county permitting and licensing website. When we had our house built here in Charlotte County, we checked that site regularly, and saw the expiration dates on permits, inspection dates and results and spoke to the builder and made regular visits to the site- we were living in Miami and couldn't get there every day but tried to at least twice a month when something was going on. We knew nothing about the permitting and building process till we were involved in rebuilding our house in Miami after Hurricane Andrew, and then building our retirement home in Charlotte County, but you better believe we checked things out and learned pretty quickly what was what when it was our dime on the line.
Anyone with internet access can check on the issuance and progress of inspections on permits, and their expiration dates. IMO it's in the interest of a customer who's having a house built to keep up with these items, and not just wait for someone to spoon feed it all to him/her. I figure being proactive about these things will at least give someone a fighting chance against being taken for a ride. And pleading ignorance of the process isn't going to get one's money back if he/she ends up getting taken for that ride, unfortunately.
I don't know what the county is doing these days, but when we had our house built ( CO in December 2008), all the inspections had to be finished, permits signed indicating final inspections, and a final overall inspection before the county issued the CO. They did allow final inspections and CO's without the appliances being installed, due to the high incidence of theft of those appliances in obviously unoccupied new houses. And our builder suggested rather strongly that we cover the windows with some temporary curtains ( we used sheets) before they would see the appliances were delivered. As it was someone got in before the drywall had been put in, I guess, tore out and stole all the copper wires for the electrical 220 lines, so we knew there were some sticky fingers around.
It's hard to imagine the county issuing a CO on a property on which there is no water supply- either well or municipal water- do you know the circumstances?
Hi Lassie : ) I am playing Devils advocate to some degree. I worked in the Industry most of my 40 year career, though it very seldom ever envolved homes, in fact most of the jobs I ran, were $500K - $20M , Electrical alone. That said, I have had to deal with a lot of inspectors and permits and Fire Marshal's All Over America .. As I see it hear it and read it, most dont really have a clue to how all this works.. YOU Do and a Few Others Do, but IMHO most dont.. For the cost of permits and impact fees , I honestly feel a form letter to property owners is not asking too much..
As for the No water supply , yet occupied residences.. that wasnt involving new homes, but its been twice that I know of.... and C.C. and CCSO knew about the one and the Water district knew about both .. either its sloppy paper work or a IDGAS attitude on someones behalf ..
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Originally Posted by Travelassie
It's very easy to access the county permitting and licensing website.
Anyone with internet access can check on the issuance and progress of inspections on permits, and their expiration dates. IMO it's in the interest of a customer who's having a house built to keep up with these items, and not just wait for someone to spoon feed it all to him/her. I figure being proactive about these things will at least give someone a fighting chance against being taken for a ride. And pleading ignorance of the process isn't going to get one's money back if he/she ends up getting taken for that ride, unfortunately.
It's hard to imagine the county issuing a CO on a property on which there is no water supply- either well or municipal water- do you know the circumstances?
Charlotte Co requires engineer plans for virtually everything. I am trying to get a porch cover for my home. I have called several contractors, had exactly 1 show up, no bid. Job is too small. And I have to pay for an engineer to draw up plans. An engineer to draw up simple plans for a 6x8 porch cover with 1 corner support post? This is a build-in-your-sleep job for a handyman, but I have to get a permit, and the permit requires all this extra non-needed stuff.
Go look at pics of Hurricane Charley's damage, then rethink your position.
Porches are correctly treated as being subject to wind code and wind loading design requirements. If you don't like it, try one of the flyover states.
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All Over America .. As I see it hear it and read it, most dont really have a clue to how all this works.. YOU Do and a Few Others Do, but IMHO most dont.. For the cost of permits and impact fees , I honestly feel a form letter to property owners is not asking too much..
