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Old 08-23-2010, 08:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samston View Post
Alpha males are those of us who lead, or are seen as leaders, and have the confidence of leaders. Strength and confidence are male traits, despite what contemporary society says about there being no gender roles.
Again, this just speaks of self-perception. You can perceive yourself as a leader, strong and confident all day, which is the ideal. If you really aren't, it doesn't matter in our society. There are no consequences, unlike those to be found in non-human groups. You won't get your ass kicked or anything. You'll just go about your day. Heck, lets take employment as an indicator of hierarchy leadership. Do you really think the millions of men that do not hold leadership roles in their jobs, or hold prestigious positions, feel they are betas/followers? Of course not. And they shouldn't, imo, because it's silly.

A healthy person is strong and confident, regardless of gender. And when strength and confidence becomes threatened, suffering probably results. It just doesn't feel good.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samston View Post
Alpha males are those of us who lead, or are seen as leaders, and have the confidence of leaders. Strength and confidence are male traits, despite what contemporary society says about there being no gender roles.
Strength and confidence are also female traits. Physical strength is also dependent, some women are actually stronger than some men, but if you are talking about inner strength, then there is no gender that stands out, only individuals.

I also have to point out that women lead and are leaders in many aspects of society, including being the leader of a country.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
but if you are talking about inner strength, then there is no gender that stands out, only individuals.
Indeed and it's value is often personal with no requirement of societal recognition.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:22 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,730,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Again, this just speaks of self-perception. You can perceive yourself as a leader, strong and confident all day, which is the ideal. If you really aren't, it doesn't matter in our society. There are no consequences, unlike those to be found in non-human groups.

i'm having a difficult time wrapping my brain around this statement.

my experience is that as a man, the opposite sex sizes you up by how other people (third parties) react to you, whether you're a leader, follower, or on doing your own thing on the sidelines. all other factors equal, the ability to command the will of others seems to be something that women find very sexy in a man, and if he's a happy, good man "on the inside," that is just icing on the cake.

so in that sense it is hard for me to understand the claim that 'there are no (or even few) consequences'. I can see how that is true for a female, where physical beauty is the yardstick, and men generally couldn't care less if you're a leader or not.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Again, this just speaks of self-perception. You can perceive yourself as a leader, strong and confident all day, which is the ideal. If you really aren't, it doesn't matter in our society. There are no consequences, unlike those to be found in non-human groups. You won't get your ass kicked or anything. You'll just go about your day. Heck, lets take employment as an indicator of hierarchy leadership. Do you really think the millions of men that do not hold leadership roles in their jobs, or hold prestigious positions, feel they are betas/followers? Of course not. And they shouldn't, imo, because it's silly.
It's not self-perception, but a fact of human society and existence.

Quote:
A healthy person is strong and confident, regardless of gender. And when strength and confidence becomes threatened, suffering probably results. It just doesn't feel good.
According to whom? Confidence is the ability to overcome things and be strong.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by le roi View Post
i'm having a difficult time wrapping my brain around this statement.

my experience is that as a man, the opposite sex sizes you up by how other people (third parties) react to you, whether you're a leader, follower, or on doing your own thing on the sidelines.

so in that sense it is hard for me to understand the claim that 'there are no (or even few) consequences'. I can see how that is true for a female, where physical beauty is the yardstick, and men generally couldn't care less if you're a leader or not.
I'm thinking of my step-father. He walks around like a pea-**** in full feathered bloom. The typical alpha male persona. In reality, he doesn't have a pot to **** in. He's not educated. He never had a career. And he's lucky that my mother has always had her financial crap together. None of that makes any difference to him. He struts and people do react to that. It doesn't make him a leader, tho. It doesn't make him particularly strong. And like most that are of that personality, he opted for the big fish in a small pond scene. It's very illusory from where I sit.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
Strength and confidence are also female traits. Physical strength is also dependent, some women are actually stronger than some men, but if you are talking about inner strength, then there is no gender that stands out, only individuals.

I also have to point out that women lead and are leaders in many aspects of society, including being the leader of a country.
I disagree. I think that men and women are different and have innately different characteristics. Everybody should have the same rights/responsibilities in society, but that shouldn't preclude men and women being different.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by samston View Post
I disagree. I think that men and women are different and have innately different characteristics. Everybody should have the same rights/responsibilities in society, but that shouldn't preclude men and women being different.
When it comes to inner strength, I think it's a wash as well.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:36 AM
 
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What is a wash?
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:37 AM
 
19,046 posts, read 25,190,600 times
Reputation: 13485
Quote:
Originally Posted by samston View Post
It's not self-perception, but a fact of human society and existence.
Again, my step-father's example fits here. It really makes no difference to him what society thinks. Just as it would make no difference to you if you typed out your resume and life achievements and I let you know that you're a not a leader.

Quote:
According to whom? Confidence is the ability to overcome things and be strong.
According to whom, what? If a person doesn't have that ability, suffering (and failure) probably results. No?
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