Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Nice is easy. Good is difficult. Nice is often taking the least resistant path, while good is doing what's right regardless of how rough it will be. Good guys can rub a lot of people the wrong way, whereas nice guys never do until they are asked to take a difficult stand. That's when very often they will throw you under the bus. Are they mutually exclusive? I think they are. Because if you are going to have courage of your convictions you will offend at least some of the people some of the time.
I can think of one possible exception, one of the best people that I've ever known, a woman born of immigrant parents and of very modest means. She's the kind of woman everyone loves. I don't think of all the years I've known her, I've ever heard one negative word said about her. If she has one poor quality it has to be that she is so reluctant to offend, that there have been times when I think she could have been more loyal to a friend under fire. But I do not hold this against her in the least; because I know that of all things, she is sincere. This is who she is. She is the one hybrid example I can think of for this question, because as nice as she is, she is IMO equally good.
I'd go through life being known for making my yes's "yes" and my no's "no." I will help someone out. But you cross me or someone I love I do respond, I will be slow to anger. If you **** me off I will ruin your life and your next life. It takes a long time for me to get to that point but I will defend what and who I believe to the bitter end.
Good post, fair handed, well explained and not insensitive of men who struggle with dating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia
Give some examples of what a good man does, not just what he is.
I will tell a story about a man I call "Uncle Pat".
Growing up I lived in a poor neighborhood, my dad was not involved in my life and most of my friend's had even worse experiences with their dad's... from abusive dads, to dad's they'd never even met, to dad's who were addicts and on and on. Many of them didn't have that great of moms either but that's another story.
My best friend during my adolescence had never met his dad, who died when he was young. He had a step-dad, who was an absolute A-hole. Abusive towards his mom, her children, generally a "bad boy" not just in image but a true A-hole. He also had an uncle.
Uncle Pat did not have children. At this time, he was basically a lifelong bachelor. Uncle Pat was unashamedly horny, kind of crude at times, stereotypically "male" in many ways, but very responsible, kind towards everyone, outgoing and confident, funny, great personality. The kind of man that lot's of women seem to love to rag on about but you know what... he paid no mind.
My friend spent a lot of time at his uncle Pat's house. His friends came along. We all spent many afternoons playing pickup basketball or football with Uncle Pat as he engaged with us in a very non-PC way. He made humorous statements about sex, women, men, and above all himself. He always made us kids laugh without belittling any of us or making us the butt of a joke. Yet if one of us was lazy, or gave up to easily, or shy, or whatever he would rib us... gently and always with a smile on his face.
This is how I remember Uncle Pat when I was young, basically the kind of guy that anyone would enjoy having as a friend or if you will, an uncle.
Now I'm grown up and still refer to my "uncle" Pat. The kids I came up with ALL know him as uncle Pat even though we aren't related.
Today Uncle Pat is married to a younger women, they have children together. Uncle Pat still treats all us "kids" like part of his own clan, though we don't see each other that often. Pat has been with his wife for going on 15 years or so now. He still walks up to her and out of the blue, says things like "honey you are so beautiful that I can't help myself" with sincerity and in front of everyone. He still farts and blames it on the dog. He still talks in admiration about big boobs and "getting some" that night. He still engages in amusing arguments with other men about whether "real men" button their shirts starting at the bottom or starting at the top. He talks sh*t about his favorite football team going up against yours.
He's always prepared. Always ready to lend a fishing pole, invite you on his boat, lend you something you forgot, invite you over, whatever. He doesn't take no sh*t. He isn't perfect and he doesn't apologize for it or waste time on women (or men) who feel the need to point out everyone else's faults.
I also think I should add some of the things that Uncle Pat is not. Uncle Pat is not tall, he's not wealthy (never has been) in fact he lived in the same poor neighborhoods I came up in, Uncle Pat is not buff or in shape, Uncle Pat does not have style, Uncle Pat does not hang out with barbie dolls, he never has driven a shiny car.
If all I ever amount to in life is an Uncle Pat, I'll be awfully happy with my life.
I also think I should add some of the things that Uncle Pat is not. Uncle Pat is not tall, he's not wealthy (never has been) in fact he lived in the same poor neighborhoods I came up in, Uncle Pat is not buff or in shape, Uncle Pat does not have style, Uncle Pat does not hang out with barbie dolls, he never has driven a shiny car.
If all I ever amount to in life is an Uncle Pat, I'll be awfully happy with my life.
Let me see if I can explain what Julia and others of us are saying...
YES, good men can of course be nice.
But we are talking about guys who describe themselves as "nice guys".
In reality those betamanlets are whiners and anything but really nice in their core beings.
They are actually weasely and wussy.
Being "nice" is the excuse they hide behind for why bad or wrong things keep happening to them.
They look to blame all failures in life on other people, not matter what it is.
They have no concept of their own contribution to where they find themselves (alone).
They resist the mature process of taking personal responsibility for their own lives and futures. To a self-described nice guy it's so much easier to say "nice guys always finish last ".
Now do you get it?
I absolutely get it now! Y'all are absolutely right! It's amazing, yes, how many guys we've seen who talk about what nice guys they are, but then you look at some of their posts and think, "Um, is this the same guy who was just talking about what a nice guy he is, on another post?" Yes, agreed! Some of the guys who claim that they're "really nice guys", can be found calling women fatties, b**ches, Ho's, and blaming everyone and everything for all the bad that's ever happened in their lives. I get it LM & Julia.... Thanks For the guys who really ARE nice guys, and just can't "seem to catch a break"...hang in there. Sometimes it's the droughts that make us appreciate the rain.
For the guys who really ARE nice guys, and just can't "seem to catch a break"...hang in there. Sometimes it's the droughts that make us appreciate the rain.
The lack of empathy in this thread is disgraceful. It comes from a place of abundance and an inability and reluctance for some to step into another’s shoes. I’m sure if you were 30 years old, living an honest life and had never gotten with a member of the opposite sex after continuous attempts, you might feel a little down as well. It’s a human reaction.
To use this frustration to say they were never nice to begin with is illogical and an exercise in backwards rationalization. Of course a man might become frustrated when he is giving his all, being a "nice" guy, attempting to do everything the right way and getting no results, while men who are the opposite of "nice" catch women left and right.
These sentiments don’t make them “not really nice” If they weren’t really nice then why would they continue with a failing façade? it’s easy to play the part of the “bad boy”, to let go of societal constraints but these hard working honest men are usually attempting to obtain higher goals, and the fact that the women in this thread think in such dualistic terms is disheartening. The point is you shouldn’t have to choose. A nice man should be able to get a nice woman or a not nice woman, whoever is compatible.
I honestly think that it’s the “nice girls” who put on this societal façade of nicety but in the end continue to choose scumbags for boyfriends who more devious and sinister.
And the fact that some of these women think being boring is the problem. What is wrong with being boring.? Why can’t boring men get with boring women and live boring lives? What’s wrong with that? The problem with the current relationship landscape is that boring women and nice women tend to prefer extroverted bad boys. From the male perspective it just doesn’t make any sense. Obviously nice guys are naïve in their thinking but I wouldn’t denigrate them for some misguided beliefs. In a way it does make sense. Obviously men do not think like women do but from the perspective of a person who hasn’t had much experience with women, you can definitely see the logic in that train of thought.
I’m not making a value judgement on this phenomena. But by not acknowledging that even though some men do go over the top with their complaints, what they are describing is a REAL and GROWING phenomenon, we hinder the pathways of communication.
Yes, guys who label themselves "nice guys" are rarely nice. Instead they are usually negative men who believe that women should choose them because they believe they should. Who wants a man who blames his relationship problems on everyone but himself? If you aren't interesting to women, get out and become interesting. If you prefer to constantly complain and whine about how no woman wants you, then, don't be suprised when you are alone. Women want a MAN, someone who has a life, charisma, wit, a backbone, is compassionate, and as has been said over and over again, someone who likes women. I mean really likes women, not someone who just likes our physical appearance, but likes our minds and how they work. The true ladies man has figured this out. The "nice guy" who has no luck with women never will.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
".
