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I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. I'm saying they are irrational and their arguments are irrational.
1. American women suck because
a. They materialistic (want nicer cars, more money, higher status, etc)
2. Mail order brides are great because
a. They materialistic (want nicer cars, more money, higher status, etc) and I can provide that.
Good afternoon,
Those are very good points, and much of the reason why I believe marrying foreign women isn't foolproof. The problem is you're lumping everyone into the same mentality. I see these men as three distinct categories (possibly more), some irrational, and some not.
Overall, I think the problem here is that many of these men idealize the idea of marrying foreign as if it's more of a romantic love story than just a cheaper version of "marrying up", probably because of the women's stereotypically sweeter attitudes and demeanor. Of course many are genuine, but culture plays a role in their demeanor too, especially in countries like the Philippines or parts of Latin America. Our society doesn't enforce women to act sweeter and nicer in its' culture (and it shouldn't). The men who idealize them as "different" are certainly irrational IMO because these women are only different due to CULTURE.
The other segment of these men probably understand this is simply a cheaper version of marrying up, but don't care since they can afford the foreign version but not the American one. I can see why you'd call this group irrational since there's a double standard.
Since you're not saying they shouldn't do it, I won't harp on the third category, those who simply see it as a practical solution to failure here at home. To me, this group is VERY rational, even though I'd prefer they first consider marrying immigrants at home, then consider moving abroad and marrying/living there to avoid green card scammers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
What about the men in these foreign countries? Their women are leaving for materialism? I guess they suck too, but it's all relative.
Good example of why any foreign wife-seeker shouldn't idealize these women since this point proves they are marrying up. Exceptions may be countries where there is a large male shortage due to war or some other factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
That's the skinny, which is fine. The fact that this is an unknown to many here highlights a part of their problem with American women. Not so much that it's about money, since American women with their shyte together have their own money, but rather issues surrounding intellect, emotional and mental competence, etc.
This isn't directly related to the foreign wife-seekers, but the problem is American women with their "shyte together" have a bad reputation amongst men in multiple categories, and until the sources of this changes the marriage rates will keep going down and the divorce rates will remain high. Once again, I'm ecstatic that women are free, but we have to find a way for the sexes to coexist and maintain stable for the sake of our society.
Those are very good points, and much of the reason why I believe marrying foreign women isn't foolproof. The problem is you're lumping everyone into the same mentality. I see these men as three distinct categories (possibly more), some irrational, and some not.
I'm addressing the men in this thread and on this forum. I'm only going by what they say.
Quote:
Overall, I think the problem here is that many of these men idealize the idea of marrying foreign as if it's more of a romantic love story than just a cheaper version of "marrying up", probably because of the women's stereotypically sweeter attitudes and demeanor. Of course many are genuine, but culture plays a role in their demeanor too, especially in countries like the Philippines or parts of Latin America. Our society doesn't enforce women to act sweeter and nicer in its' culture (and it shouldn't). The men who idealize them as "different" are certainly irrational IMO because these women are only different due to CULTURE.
Well, where they are not different is status and worse, real money. These women would not give any of these men a second glance if these guys don't have money to fork over, if they cannot provide them with a better life. Period. No romance, no nothing. The bottom line is about the wallet. For a cost these men might get the subservient wife they can control; a wife that will over look the fault American women won't because we don't have to. Of course, none of this is here nor there.
Quote:
The other segment of these men probably understand this is simply a cheaper version of marrying up, but don't care since they can afford the foreign version but not the American one. I can see why you'd call this group irrational since there's a double standard.
They're irrational because they fail to recognize the double standard, not so much because they behold to any. It's the argument itself.
Quote:
Since you're not saying they shouldn't do it, I won't harp on the third category, those who simply see it as a practical solution to failure here at home. To me, this group is VERY rational, even though I'd prefer they first consider marrying immigrants at home, then consider moving abroad and marrying/living there to avoid green card scammers.
What any of these men do doesn't really matter. This conversation is more about the why's to the situation, not what they actually do. Most likely these guys won't do anything. It's not in their nature to begin with, which is the catch-22.
Quote:
Good example of why any foreign wife-seeker shouldn't idealize these women since this point proves they are marrying up. Exceptions may be countries where there is a large male shortage due to war or some other factor.
The problem is American women with their "shyte together" have a bad reputation amongst men in multiple categories, and until the sources of this changes the marriage rates will keep going down and the divorce rates will remain high. Once again, I'm ecstatic that women are free, but we have to find a way for the sexes to coexist and maintain stable for the sake of our society.
You may be correct if you're referring to a subset of the US population, but by and large it's not true at all. I and members of my demographic have never needed to worry about bad reputations. Women with their shyte together, outside African Americans perhaps, simply couple/marry other men with their shyte together. I have no doubt a majority of women in this thread, all average American women, have had their fill of suitors in their lives. It's really not a problem.
As far as marriage rates go, as we have discussed in the past, it's tied to economics. Marriage rates are up for the affluent and down for the struggling. Things may change when/if the economy turns around.
How do these men know that the women they are talking about and putting down equal the women on this site? They don't. No more than I know they are marrying these "mail order brides" because they are subservient. It goes both ways, you know.
Hello,
I agree that it goes both ways. I don't give the men a pass. Keep in mind, you should probably abide by your same critique. You did not when you lumped men in the "men don't want women like that anymore" comment. I say this with kindness, not as an attack.
In regards to "women on this site", I haven't seen anyone say they were specifically talking about the women who are posting here. Anyone who does that should be ridiculed since we're all anonymous. Outside of those who engage in personal attacks, I see most posts as general opinions about the real life world, not here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doll Eyes
You're right, your reality is how you perceive the world around you. If they want chivalry to be reciprocated, they have to be chivalrous in the first damn place. Most of the ones I have come across are not, just as they claim 'american women' they've come across are gold digging wh*res.
The problem with the chivalry question is: Who starts it and how soon should it be reciprocated? Those men who complain about it generally say they have to perform weeks or months of chivalry to get reciprocation. My solution is to be a "conditional chivalrist" like I am. I am chivalrous from Day 1 with women who reciprocate from Day 1.
I live in the South, so maybe my perspective is different. I've known golddiggers, and the majority of women I've met are not. Do they want a man to make decent income? Sure. Most of the men I've seen make those statements are from large superficial metro areas, so I don't know if they are just generalizing or products of their narrow-minded environment. Maybe I'd feel that way if I lived in NYC, where the average income is higher, which probably increases the average woman's income expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doll Eyes
Well here is another problem: many of them are taking individual women they have dealt with IRL and "blobbing them together as one solid viewpoint" to equate the women here. I already said I couldn't care less about American men or otherwise marrying foreign women/mail order brides, etc. I just don't appreciate them feeling the need to slam all of us on their way out the door.
I agree with you on the slamming on the way out the door thing, it's unneccesary. I think a "wall of silence" is best unless women start posting threads asking feedback for "where the good men have gone".
Most men AND women do the blobbing, and that's part of the problem. People see their narrow environment and use it to make all sorts of opinions without research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doll Eyes
Just because women from those countries have a strong "reciprocity record" doesn't mean every woman here doesn't.
That's true, but use the same logic for why people avoid certain neighborhoods. Not everyone is bad news there, but you and I probably won't take the risk in living in one because too many residents ARE bad news.
Reputation matters, and if our women don't like theirs, they should consider and fix the problem. I feel the same way about our men, especially in the fatherhood category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doll Eyes
I am doing what is best for me, it's called not dating..... IMO there's nothing wrong with some aspects of 1950s living. It is not for everyone, but there are certain simple things and lifestyle guidelines that I agree and fit my own life. I don't have any problem with women being independent and free....My entire point of any of this is both side would probably appreciate if the other didn't just discount & lump each other all together as one sex with one mind. But that's not going to happen is it? So IMO, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.....I need to get back to work, asap. gb
I agree with everything you said here. Enjoy the rest of your day at work.
Oh - they want a subservient woman who asks them out and pays for the dates.
You got it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
But how can you have success with women when you don't even like them? This is what I don't understand. For the men on here that talk about how much they hate American women - how can you expect to find love with something that you spew such hatred toward? All american women are vapid, materialistic, entitled, spoiled, etc. - why won't they go for me? It just doesn't make sense to me...
That's just sour grapes... Not any different than a kid who didn't get something and then claimed he didn't want it in the first place in order to save face.
I'm addressing the men in this thread and on this forum. I'm only going by what they say.
Good afternoon,
No problem. I've seen various opinions here that fit my points, but your point is fine by me since we certainly read and retain info from comparatively different threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Well, where they are not different is status and worse, real money. These women would not give any of these men a second glance if these guys don't have money to fork over, if they cannot provide them with a better life. Period. No romance, no nothing. The bottom line is about the wallet. For a cost these men might get the subservient wife they can control; a wife that will over look the fault American women won't because we don't have to. Of course, none of this is here nor there.
I'm sure this is true in some or many cases, but it could simply be a cheaper version of our own marriage market, since we can't say money doesn't play a role in our own culture, based on the top reason given for divorce. To me, that shows "money" (at some level) IS factored into their (and our) requirements for romance. As you say, neither here nor there, it's free people making free choices at the end of the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
They're irrational because they fail to recognize the double standard, not so much because they behold to any. It's the argument itself.
In that post I was referring to those who DO recognize it but don't care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
What any of these men do doesn't really matter. This conversation is more about the why's to the situation, not what they actually do. Most likely these guys won't do anything. It's not in their nature to begin with, which is the catch-22.
I agree. Marrying foreign is a major hurdle for the average Joe, so this is really just mental gymnastics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
You may be correct if you're referring to a subset of the US population, but by and large it's not true at all. I and members of my demographic have never needed to worry about bad reputations. Women with their shyte together, outside African Americans perhaps, simply couple/marry other men with their shyte together. I have no doubt a majority of women in this thread, all average American women, have had their fill of suitors in their lives. It's really not a problem.
As far as marriage rates go, as we have discussed in the past, it's tied to economics. Marriage rates are up for the affluent and down for the struggling. Things may change when/if the economy turns around.
Maybe your definition of "shyte together" is referring only to your demographic, hence different from my definition. If your group is marrying each other that's wonderful but isn't large enough to make a dent in the poor and middle class. I just don't see your given reason for declining marriage rates in the charts I've looked at. I've seen a continuous drop for the past 50 years, and that covers both good and bad economic times.
If your charts say something different about historical marriage rates, I'd love to see it since my viewpoints are flexible.
I'd be surprised if this were the case. Maybe you should consider hosting a private poll to see if you are right.
You think the men that feel this way would ADMIT to it? Frankly, I don't even think they are aware of it. But this is what you get when you want women to ask you out and pay for all the dates while at the same time talking about how much better women were in past generations. Some of the men on here complain about how they have to do all the work - when what they really seem to be saying is that they want the women to do all the work instead. If you want something in life - you have to put forth some effort. You can't just sit on your butt and complain. Just my two cents.
Yeah, anger is tough. For months and months druring and after my divorce I had people asking me why I wasn't angry. I wasn't angry because every time I tried to get angry with her and work through it, I'd come to the same conclusion over and over again, which was it (the divorce) was all my fault. If you believe its all your fault, how can you be angry at the other person? But bottom line is, she abandoned the marriage. So its actually taken me a couple of years to realize I wasn't the only one at fault, and now I am angry. But for me, the best revenge would be for her to see me remarried with a family. So I'm trying to let go of the anger and move forward. Its just so hard because she meant the world to me.
Good! Anger is one of the stages of grief and I think it's great that you're feeling it. Keep on working through it and you'll get to the other side.
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Originally Posted by Atlguy39
Agree. Thats a great option. I have to get this job. Once that happens I'm going to really start testing the waters. Dude, Salsa is hard! But I think I can learn it. There's a great class near me and I know the instructor. They have ladies nights with Salsa at several places here.
I'm so happy to see you say this--sounds like you're finally ready to move forward. Just keep taking little steps and you'll get there.
Some of you just don't get it...at all. I'm at work so I don't have the time to reply to all of this stuff with detailed posts and point out why. Not to mention you blatantly avoid valid points that people make anyway. The only response I see here is that foreign women are only after men for their money (false)...so they are no different than American women..lol!!! Just for starters you assume every country is like America..some countries are small so that would give them less options as far as men go just in itself. Also in some countries men don't treat women all that well. Those are both 2 reasons a foreign woman might be interested in a good American man. In America women have a lot of options (or think they do) because so many men want to date 5 women at once and there are so many men that cheat. Polygamy is a huge problem in America for men that are 100 percent single and looking. It causes a huge balance problem in the numbers game and dating pool in America.
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I am chivalrous from Day 1 with women who reciprocate from Day 1.
