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It's still worth the effort because some can learn to be very good in bed, but if you're awful, they have no motivation. Then if they won't or can't learn, find another.
A lot of men have great difficulty finding ONE, let alone another.
I find the anti-intellectualism in this thread amusing. You will never attain peak human potential in any competency, including sex, if you do not include theory formulating a taxonomy of variables into standardized logical space by way of instruments of measurement.
Yes, field testing and hands on training is an important component of being a better lover, but the scientific literature of human ability indicates that merely repeating something a large number of times and making changes based on experience or intuition is insufficient for attaining peak human performance.
Expert performance is qualitatively different from average performance, experts have abilities that are outside the range of the average performers. How good you become at something is not an outcome of repeating a skill a large number of times. Expert performers assess the internal and external environment, gather inferences from theory, and break down the skills needed to attain potential. After this, the aspiring expert works on improving skills in the domain during day to day activities paired with immediate feedback and practicing a skill at more challenging levels in a sequential manner.
It generally takes 10,000 hours of deliberate practice to master something. Individual preferences vary, but there are baseline level skills that are transferable across populations. To suggest otherwise implicates that a virgin who has never had sex before and someone who has been in several long relationships start off on equal footing when having sex with a new woman for the first time.
When I train to be a better lover based on theory and practice, I identify all the different variables that come into play when measuring what makes a good lover and how a good lover is different from a bad lover. Then I'll work on improving variables individually on my own and with consensual participants, then tie it all together with consensual participants.
Last edited by Mighty_Pelican; 11-16-2013 at 06:04 PM..
But I agree with you, and you are saying something I have been thinking but unsure how to bring up:
Even with things that are 'natural', we can benefit by learning from other people and not always reinventing the wheel. Sure, you can teach yourself to hunt, gather, build a shelter, and have pretty good sex. But you'll have tastier food, a more comfy house, and more awesome sex if you learn a bit -- even from people you don't personally know. That's why the internet rocks .
I think the anti-knowledge crowd are just expressing their fears. But life is so much more fun if we don't let fear limit us.
I don't get why this is entirely the mans problem. Shouldn't the woman be "good" too?
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
The biggest issue I hear from my male friends is that a woman "just lies there". Either she doesn't move, doesn't make noise, doesn't let them know a dang thing. These women are typically the kind that have some sort of hangup about being open about sex. Very rarely, do these women get out of their comfort zone. And either my male friends put up with it or leave. Sadly, some have cheated.
So no matter how responsive the man is to this type of woman, of course he's going to fail. No amount of perception will let him in on what she likes, because honestly, she probably doesn't like anything or doesn't know what she likes and is too afraid to open her mouth and let him know.
I think a lot of the responses here could be aimed at men or women. I really do believe the best thing that makes a man or woman a great lover is that they're open about sex (talking, learning, know their bodies, able to explore and be explored w/o embarrassment or shame - in bed or out). The men who have complimented me said they liked it because I had no fear. I don't mean, let's go shag at the club, I just mean, I wasn't pensive about touching them or seeing what they like, exploring, etc. I'm not super aggressive, but can be. Versus the women they're usually with, who expect to be pleased, even though they have yet to even touch the man.
I guess the next best thread to start is.....how many men have awesome, great, bad, horrible lovers?
The thing that stood out for me in the responses to those threads was how relatively rare men who are good in bed are. Why don't more men work on this skill? Do they think it can only be learned IN bed? Do they think women are so different that no skills are transferable? Or do they think porn is a good source? (That would explain a lot....)
Guys here, where do you learn? What non-porn websites have been useful? Do you take tantra and body awareness workshops alone? If not, why not?
When properly watched and analyzed porn can be very helpful and informative.
Sorry, I've watched a ton of porn (and still do). Without it, I wouldn't have been able to rock each and every woman I've slept with. There is a video of Nina Hartley and Sunny Lane where Nina is giving a real good lesson on how to properly go down on a woman. I took some mental notes and applied it within a couple weeks after watching it. Thankfully I've had no complaints.
As for the reason a hefty chunk of men don't want to learn how to be better lovers, it's mainly due to them being thrilled with some semi-hot woman laying there and acting like she's enjoying it. When in reality, they aren't rocking her like a hurricane and she cannot wait for him to blow his load so she can get on to what she was doing prior to gettin' busy.
Sloth and simply not considering the other's pleasure as significant. Women are heavily conditioned to be people pleasers, not so much the other way around.
In Russia they offer BJ classes for women (Google is your friend), yet no such Cunnilingus courses for men.
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