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He says it at the very end... that if a woman doesn't fit the list perfectly and has a man who loves her, it's only because he settled (implying that even if he says he likes you, he's really not happy with you):
From the article:
Overall, I think it's a good list that women can use if they are unsuccessful in love. But the way it's presented makes it a turn off (and sometimes insulting--even to women who have a boyfriend or husband) that a lot of women won't take seriously.
Ahh, gotcha. Well, that part of the article is dumb. Not much else to say there.
That list goes for men or women, except the be feminine one.
Many women want their guys to be in shape, not crazy body mods, money, being submissive selectively, great sex life without having been too promiscuous, intelligent, childless, a cook, less into technology than they are into you, no makeup, less cursing, and less women friends.
Everyone wants a selectively submissive partner, as you don't want one partner dominating everything. If my husband always insisted on having his way all the time...buh bye. I have an opinion too. It's a give and take. Sometimes I am submissive and sometimes he is.
It's pretty much common sense. Sure there are exceptions to everything, and lots of people are attracted to people who don't fit this list. Shrugs.
That list goes for men or women, except the be feminine one.
Many women want their guys to be in shape, not crazy body mods, money, being submissive selectively, great sex life without having been too promiscuous, intelligent, childless, a cook, less into technology than they are into you, no makeup, less cursing, and less women friends.
Everyone wants a selectively submissive partner, as you don't want one partner dominating everything. If my husband always insisted on having his way all the time...buh bye. I have an opinion too. It's a give and take. Sometimes I am submissive and sometimes he is.
It's pretty much common sense. Sure there are exceptions to everything, and lots of people are attracted to people who don't fit this list. Shrugs.
Exactly.
But it is generalities and a person does not have to change to meet all of those to be desirable.
#5 in particular. Be submissive? How about you BOTH just do nice things for each other. Because you know, you LIKE EACH OTHER? The examples were particularly offensive. Rub his back and suck him off? Um, I do those things to my partner because I enjoy doing those things for him and whomever I'm dating tends to enjoy doing reciprocal things for me. There's no "submission" component involved - it's called being in a relationship, ferchrissakes. And "Watch what he wants to watch"? WTF? Yeah, I'll watch what he wants to watch and sometimes he'll watch what I want to watch.
Jesus. H. Christ. The "advice" ranges from no brainers to archaic idiocy to vague suggestions of infanticide.
It just means let the man be the man, the masculine force. It certainly doesn't mean you can't do nice things for each other.
I would say the be intelligent thing doesn't belong there either because it's not something anyone has any control over (the list says "things a woman can do" after all).
But yeah, the submissive thing is about personality and it's, again, not something people can just change either. If you tend to be a follower-type (submissive) you just are. And if you tend to be a leader type, again you just are.
The only other thing I kind of have an issue with is the childfree thing because it's not something a person can change. I get it, men without children prefer women without children (and vice versa). But it's not like it's a choice if a woman already has kids. Maybe it's because it hits close home for me. I have a child... but it's not like I did anything "wrong." I was married, my ex came out as gay, we divorced. I can't change the past.
In those regards, where the author tells women to "change" something that's impossible to change or it means changing who she is/her personality, it comes across as hostile.
And I do have issue with the author saying if a man doesn't agree with him 100% than that man is settling. And if a woman doesn't meet every item on that list, any man who is with her and says he loves her really doesn't because he is settling for less than perfect. It's like the author thinks his opinion is the only valid and that all men think just like him instead of just acknowledging that his list has a broad appeal to most men, but every man is different and not every man cares about all items on that list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
Really? I think that is exactly what the guy is saying - that it doesn't matter if your boyfriend tells you that he likes you just the way you are. I think he honestly believes that most men want every single item on that list - and if you don't fit that list to a tee - that your boyfriend wishes you did even if he tells you differently. I thought he made that pretty clear but you can interpret it differently. He also said that it's stupid to look for the perfect mate - but that you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking that you are the perfect mate because guys will settle for what they can get.
And for the record - I'm not interpreting it this way because I'm defensive or upset - that's just how it comes off to me. I also fit most of the items on that list - or I did when I met my husband. I'm a stay at home mom now but when we met, we were on tour together so I was obviously making my own money. I didn't cook well when we met - but we were on tour so it's not like we had a kitchen anyway. Now I cook pretty much everyday. And I didn't have kids then although I do now because we both wanted them and we are married. I've always had guy friends but I also have more women friends than guy friends. The only one I'd say I really don't fit is that I'm not submissive - but I do do a lot of things just to make my husband happy and my husband wouldn't want a really submissive wife. He likes that I can challenge him but that I don't go out of my way to do so. Then again - maybe he really wishes I was submissive and I'm just deluding myself!
And don't get me wrong - I'm not offended by this article and it didn't rile me up or anything. I think that there are some useful things on the list - but he does come off like a pompous a** and that might deter some women from taking it seriously (and I think A LOT of people who write blog lists come off like pompous a**es so it's not like I think this guy is the only one). I understand that some people do need a kick in the butt to realize they need to do something differently - but I'm not sure that this list would accomplish that.
Yes, this. I showed my husband the list, and he rolled his eyes. A good chunk of it isn't really "news," and some of it can hardly be applied because they deal with personality or inherent traits or characteristics (intelligence, submissiveness). His "Be intelligent" advice is about as useful as "be outgoing" or "be charming." Well, some people are not naturally outgoing, and some may find it difficult to be charming, and this characteristic, how it is defined or viewed, varies greatly.
And what if these things aren't things that one struggles with in terms of dating? What if they're socially awkward, shy, introverted or have other things they may need to work on that excludes cooking skills and not being glued to electronic devices?
His assertion or implication that every man desires these traits, and if an attached woman doesn't possess these traits then her partner is obviously settling. Because, ya know, all mean desire the same characteristics and traits in a partner. That is patently erroneous. Glaringly so.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,063,024 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysique
Because, ya know, all mean desire the same characteristics and traits in a partner. That is patently erroneous. Glaringly so.
But all real men do. Those others, they're not men. The real educated, non wussy, contact sport playing, meat eating MEN (aka anti feminism) will all want what is on that list.
The wimps, vegans, as betas will not. They can't get the good women.
But all real men do. Those others, they're not men. The real educated, non wussy, contact sport playing, meat eating MEN (aka anti feminism) will all want what is on that list.
The wimps, vegans, as betas will not. They can't get the good women.
/end sarcasm
Real man = A man who understands and accepts his role as provider (notice I didn't say SOLE provider)? A man who joyfully provides for the ones he has accepted responsibility for?
Real man = A man who can command respect from his woman without resorting to aggression or passive-aggression?
Last edited by laorbust61; 07-31-2014 at 12:25 PM..
Ha. So you are saying you disagree with the things on this list? Hmmmm.....if you are so against everything on this list, lets do this, imagine a woman who is the exact opposite of everything on this list. She does exactly the opposite of what the author/writer says, do you think guys would want her? She'd be:
#1 - Fat
#2 - Heavily tatted up and lots of piercings everywhere.
#3 - Needs you to support her and/or give her money
#4 - Be all manly shotgunning beers and unshaved
#5 - Demanding. Bossy.
#6 - Horrible sex life. Doesn't want it. Doesn't do it. Does not try to please her man. LOTS of other men.
#7 - Dumb
#8 - Has lots of kids. Different daddies.
#9 - Hates to cook.
#10 - Constantly has her face in her phone
#11 - Wears a ton of makeup
#12 - Cussing all the time. "C" word this, "F" word that.
#13 - Unable to make friends with women.
Do you agree with this? Do you think doing these things will help a woman be more attractive to a man?
They really needed to add #14 - Don't be a smoker.
Again, I don't care for #9 and I don't like submissive women #5, but everything else is good for women to know.
Really, women can just not be fat and they would be good.
Well there are definitely lots of men who go for any of of the above, not necessarily a woman having ALL of those attributes. But then again there are men who many not be turned on by some of the attributes of the original list. So yeah some of those traits may make a woman attractive to a particular man. You just said X, Y and Z don't fit your own preferences and I am sure there is every possible combination of X Y Z preferences.
There are even those who are really turned on by fat people.
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