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I did mention it on a different thread once before. Rather than hunt it down, I just rehashed it. Interesting thought, the presence of threat. I think the possibility of a threat certainly adds a more dynamic (for lack of a better word) element to objectification, but I don't think it's a required ingredient. If you think about your last statement, arguably she didn't respect my dignity. It doesn't take a threatening presence to not respect one's dignity.
That's my conclusion, anyway. You are certainly free to disagree and in all likelihood will. I think we are both sound enough to respect where our opinions on this subject differ.
Hmm. That's interesting. I think unless someone made me feel threatened, I wouldn't feel like my dignity was disrespected. Like in the case I mentioned early, with kind of skeevy guys yelling that I have nice legs--I guess they aren't technically respecting my dignity by saying those things, but I don't feel threatened, so I'm not worried about it.
What if she grabbed it? Would that have changed things? (I'm not asking to be snarky. I'm just wondering if there are different boundaries for men in re: objectification or if they aren't offended by anything.)
Hmm. That's interesting. I think unless someone made me feel threatened, I wouldn't feel like my dignity was disrespected. Like in the case I mentioned early, with kind of skeevy guys yelling that I have nice legs--I guess they aren't technically respecting my dignity by saying those things, but I don't feel threatened, so I'm not worried about it.
What if she grabbed it? Would that have changed things? (I'm not asking to be snarky. I'm just wondering if there are different boundaries for men in re: objectification or if they aren't offended by anything.)
Well, technically she did. She moved it around and wiped it with a sterile wipe, as well as the area where the doc was to be operating. Of course, this was to be expected in this specific context. Now obviously this is not what you are asking. She handled me consistent with her professional duties. Had she gone over that line I would have objected. I'm married, so I the only woman I allow to handle me like that is my wife. I honestly don't know how I would have reacted to that hypothetical if I were single.
Regarding your first paragraph, I think in this case the position of vulnerability definitely qualifies. I'm a patient in her facility. She is a bit of an authority figure in that realm. She gave the orders (get on the table, lift your rear so I can pull down your shorts, etc...). I was drugged up so I'd be calm for the procedure. I'm in there getting a procedure that makes men...nervous. This is why I shared this specific situation. I've had women make comments to me from time to time. Complete strangers in random times and places. Usually I think they are being suggestive in a funny way and laugh with them to laugh it off.
Well, technically she did. She moved it around and wiped it with a sterile wipe, as well as the area where the doc was to be operating. Of course, this was to be expected in this specific context. Now obviously this is not what you are asking. She handled me consistent with her professional duties. Had she gone over that line I would have objected. I'm married, so I the only woman I allow to handle me like that is my wife. I honestly don't know how I would have reacted to that hypothetical if I were single.
I think it would be interesting to know what the limits are toward objectification from a male point of view.
You know, so I don't overstep boundaries next time I'm out on the street
I think it would be interesting to know what the limits are toward objectification from a male point of view.
You know, so I don't overstep boundaries next time I'm out on the street
Kidding!!
Right now mine are purely based on my marital status! So objectify all you want. Think as many dirty thoughts as you want. Go to that crazy voodoo donuts store and have one made that looks just like me and eat it slowly and sensuously. Just don't touch me in a manner you wouldn't want another woman touching your man. That's where I draw my lines. If I feel I were being touched in a way reserved only for my wife I would object. I owe this to myself and my wife to hold the line here. Also, context is everything. If I knew I were being constantly objectified by a woman with whom I have constant contact but she never touched me, I'd still find a way to draw the line in a subtle manner so it never reached the touching point. This is rarely a problem because whenever I am objectified now (and actually am aware of it) it is always the "drive-bys."
Incidentally about a year ago my wife warned me of a friend of ours who had a playful rivalry with me. At one point she told me our friend was being flirty and our banter was not entirely altruistic on her end. After that I scaled back and was dismissive of this person when she'd try to get me going. The result: She isn't like that with me any more and my wife and I still have a friend in her.
Right now mine are purely based on my marital status! So objectify all you want. Think as many dirty thoughts as you want. Go to that crazy voodoo donuts store and have one made that looks just like me and eat it slowly and sensuously. Just don't touch me in a manner you wouldn't want another woman touching your man. That's where I draw my lines. If I feel I were being touched in a way reserved only for my wife I would object. I owe this to myself and my wife to hold the line here. Also, context is everything. If I knew I were being constantly objectified by a woman with whom I have constant contact but she never touched me, I'd still find a way to draw the line in a subtle manner so it never reached the touching point. This is rarely a problem because whenever I am objectified now (and actually am aware of it) it is always the "drive-bys."
Incidentally about a year ago my wife warned me of a friend of ours who had a playful rivalry with me. At one point she told me our friend was being flirty and our banter was not entirely altruistic on her end. After that I scaled back and was dismissive of this person when she'd try to get me going. The result: She isn't like that with me any more and my wife and I still have a friend in her.
I never really consider the "drive-bys" to be objectifying. I just smile and thank them for the compliment. I think that confuses them more than anything, because they are probably used to women telling them to **** off.
I never really consider the "drive-bys" to be objectifying. I just smile and thank them for the compliment. I think that confuses them more than anything, because they are probably used to women telling them to **** off.
I think some of them can be. Others not so much. Context and the nature and intent of the comment are everything. Also, it is very rare for a woman to openly "cat call" the way you said you sometimes experience from men as you are walking down the street. It has happened to me from time to time, but it is pretty rare.
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She moved it around and wiped it with a sterile wipe, as well as the area where the doc was to be operating. Of course, this was to be expected in this specific context. Now obviously this is not what you are asking. She handled me consistent with her professional duties. Had she gone over that line I would have objected. I'm married, so I the only woman I allow to handle me like that is my wife. I honestly don't know how I would have reacted to that hypothetical if I were single.
