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Well, technically she did. She moved it around and wiped it with a sterile wipe, as well as the area where the doc was to be operating. Of course, this was to be expected in this specific context. Now obviously this is not what you are asking. She handled me consistent with her professional duties. Had she gone over that line I would have objected. I'm married, so I the only woman I allow to handle me like that is my wife. I honestly don't know how I would have reacted to that hypothetical if I were single.
Regarding your first paragraph, I think in this case the position of vulnerability definitely qualifies. I'm a patient in her facility. She is a bit of an authority figure in that realm. She gave the orders (get on the table, lift your rear so I can pull down your shorts, etc...). I was drugged up so I'd be calm for the procedure. I'm in there getting a procedure that makes men...nervous. This is why I shared this specific situation. I've had women make comments to me from time to time. Complete strangers in random times and places. Usually I think they are being suggestive in a funny way and laugh with them to laugh it off.
Well, that was my point. She was your nurse. Not cool at all. It doesn't even matter if you enjoyed it or not, she just can't be doing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll
Right now mine are purely based on my marital status! So objectify all you want. Think as many dirty thoughts as you want. Go to that crazy voodoo donuts store and have one made that looks just like me and eat it slowly and sensuously. Just don't touch me in a manner you wouldn't want another woman touching your man. That's where I draw my lines. If I feel I were being touched in a way reserved only for my wife I would object. I owe this to myself and my wife to hold the line here. Also, context is everything. If I knew I were being constantly objectified by a woman with whom I have constant contact but she never touched me, I'd still find a way to draw the line in a subtle manner so it never reached the touching point. This is rarely a problem because whenever I am objectified now (and actually am aware of it) it is always the "drive-bys."
Incidentally about a year ago my wife warned me of a friend of ours who had a playful rivalry with me. At one point she told me our friend was being flirty and our banter was not entirely altruistic on her end. After that I scaled back and was dismissive of this person when she'd try to get me going. The result: She isn't like that with me any more and my wife and I still have a friend in her.
We have a married female friend who had told me about an affair she was contemplating. I discouraged her from doing it. Later it came up between me and my SO because of a certain conversation they had been having. I didn't want to, but I told my SO about the affair she had considered, only to let my SO what was what. Nipping it in the bud, so to speak..
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonCountyLiving
I never really consider the "drive-bys" to be objectifying. I just smile and thank them for the compliment. I think that confuses them more than anything, because they are probably used to women telling them to **** off.
Yeah, guys like that, I think, are mostly going for the reaction...
Well, that was my point. She was your nurse. Not cool at all. It doesn't even matter if you enjoyed it or not, she just can't be doing that.
True. Like I said earlier, I considered it a victimless crime. Is a victimless crime still a crime? Most legal precedence would say it is. But in my case I enjoyed that she enjoyed what she saw. Which I think raises a fair question: Do you think the number of harassment complaints, sexual assault complaints, lawsuits, etc with female aggressors and male victims is so much lower because men are okay with being objectified? I think that explains at least part of the disparity. What says the class?
True. Like I said earlier, I considered it a victimless crime. Is a victimless crime still a crime? Most legal precedence would say it is. But in my case I enjoyed that she enjoyed what she saw. Which I think raises a fair question: Do you think the number of harassment complaints, sexual assault complaints, lawsuits, etc with female aggressors and male victims is so much lower because men are okay with being objectified? I think that explains at least part of the disparity. What says the class?
Well, lol, I guess the "victimless" term is debatable, is the problem.
What if a very underage girl was "victimized" by a man? What if she liked it? Just because she liked it, does that mean she wasn't, in essence, victimized by the much older man?
I know I'm getting a little dark here, but I'm just trying to clarify the concept of victimization.
Well, lol, I guess the "victimless" term is debatable, is the problem.
What if a very underage girl was "victimized" by a man? What if she liked it? Just because she liked it, does that mean she wasn't, in essence, victimized by the much older man?
I know I'm getting a little dark here, but I'm just trying to clarify the concept of victimization.
True. So I am forced to agree with you the term "victim" is subjective. There is a big difference between a 34 year old man and an underage girl. I definitely see why you would raise that point, though. I can appreciate it because I have a daughter. At the same time, I maintain there is a major difference between a grown man and a little girl. It's a quandary because I trust my instincts and my instincts tell me I was not a "victim" in the incident described. At the same time applying some critical thought forces me to question my instincts. And experience tells me this is usually a mistake.
Lets say a woman you don't know very well came right out said you had a nice chest and butt. Would you be offended? What if she said she was impressed by your job and your car? (money objectifying) Would you be offended?
I'm pretty sure that most males like female attention of most any kind. I remember once a girl I never met came up to me and squeezed my butt nice and hard. I turned around shocked and she just giggled with her friend that was with her, I was not offended
Physical objectification, I'd be very flattered, and I'd feel great.
If someone said they just wanted my ATM card, or my wallet, I'd seriously avoid that person, and not want anything to do with them.
Regarding if someone grabbed my butt. I remember one female friend did that once to me, and I felt really flattered and good about that.
I can think of a few other times, when I was much younger, and a much older woman said a few 'objectifying' things. I kinda liked it, but I also really had no idea how to respond to that. I think I felt a bit awkward and unsure how to respond to her exactly.
I think a lot of these things just depend on context. The personalities involved, the situation, etc.
True. So I am forced to agree with you the term "victim" is subjective. There is a big difference between a 34 year old man and an underage girl. I definitely see why you would raise that point, though. I can appreciate it because I have a daughter. At the same time, I maintain there is a major difference between a grown man and a little girl. It's a quandary because I trust my instincts and my instincts tell me I was not a "victim" in the incident described. At the same time applying some critical thought forces me to question my instincts. And experience tells me this is usually a mistake.
No, I understand, and that's why I said I was taking it a little further. But, seriously, there are no men that would think that this nurse was abusing her position?
No, I understand, and that's why I said I was taking it a little further. But, seriously, there are no men that would think that this nurse was abusing her position?
All you men out there, feel free to answer...
I'm sure you'll get answers all over the map, and I can only answer for me. In my purest, most simple answer, I think yes, she abused her position. But my qualitative answer is that I enjoyed her admiration of my form. I think most men would agree, but I can't speak for them all. Swap out the sweet, chubby, 50-something for some young, hot nurse with big boobs and... well you can see where this is going.
I'm sure you'll get answers all over the map, and I can only answer for me. In my purest, most simple answer, I think yes, she abused her position. But my qualitative answer is that I enjoyed her admiration of my form. I think most men would agree, but I can't speak for them all. Swap out the sweet, chubby, 50-something for some young, hot nurse with big boobs and... well you can see where this is going.
Do you feel that she was deriving sexual pleasure by touching you?
that would be hypocritical of me if i got offended.
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She moved it around and wiped it with a sterile wipe, as well as the area where the doc was to be operating. Of course, this was to be expected in this specific context. Now obviously this is not what you are asking. She handled me consistent with her professional duties. Had she gone over that line I would have objected. I'm married, so I the only woman I allow to handle me like that is my wife. I honestly don't know how I would have reacted to that hypothetical if I were single.
