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1. It is often fetishized. She might be connecting in a real way with a whole other human being, have feelings for them, and here's this man thinking about it as porn.
I don't get this concept of fetishizing. It just seems like a way to shame men for their sexuality. I don't know why that's okay.
It's not fetishizing it's men being aroused by a sexual situation.
It's like any appreciation for the female form in any way is wrong, dirty, perverted. This is why boys grow up emotionally stunted and lacking relationship skills because they are told they are perverts for having sexuality and that it's predatory for them to do that.
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2. The one I'd encountered... Let's say I was unhappy in a relationship with a man. Try to break up (without cheating) and he fights, fusses, argues, manipulates, gets his mother to argue his case, refuses to accept my wishes to end the relationship. Unless I say, "I've met another man." Oh, NOW that there is another whole, actual person, with whole, actual autonomy involved...now it's real. Another woman? Nah. He may even assume that he can participate somehow. Women's actions and decisions not seen as quite as firm and meaningful as those of men. A woman isn't a person who can get up and walk away, but an object which only the hand of a male can pick up and "steal." Another woman could not possibly.
well in all fairness in such a scenario the woman would be in a relationship with a man and not a woman. If she really wanted to be with a woman the man would have had a chance in hell he's not a woman.
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3. If my partner and I are discussing an open relationship of some kind, then him telling me that I can only get it on with people he finds attractive and non-threatening...think if I reversed that and told my male partner he could only be with another guy.
I think it only applies either way if you're bisexual. I think you're bisexual guy would be okay with getting it on with another guy. But those tables don't reverse, not usually. Generally bisexual men just have to stay in the closet. And this is because of men are objectified for their masculinity and their status, by women. And if a bisexual man that sex with another man it lowers his status. I've been on both sides of this table to a degree. I find that women objectify men the same or if not more than men do to women. It's just that we're objectified for different things.
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Because it gave me a bad feeling to know he was with someone that felt like "competition." Or how about, if my man were bisexual and I told him that he could sleep with other men because "that doesn't count" somehow? Regardless of who he had desire for at any given time.
I don't know how women think about this because I've never been a woman. All I know is how men think about it. And men are in competition with other men. All the time on every front no matter what. Like I said I've never been a woman so I don't know how women feel and think about other women but it certainly doesn't seem like they are in competition with one another to the same degree Men are. This starts when we're small children. There are certainly times I've noticed when women are competing with other women but from my observation it looks very different than the way men compete with one another.
I even remember seeing girls and women wanting to compete with the men. This is why all throughout the ages men have wrestled and physically Mod cut. with one another or large animals. This is why the football field filled with men. It's this nature in men that the military appeals to and why so many men join the military or the police.
Men are absolutely in competition with one another all the time.
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4. In context of when that comment was originally made, we were discussing sexual history, not infidelity. So somehow female partners for a woman "don't count"...only men? Why?
again I have thought about this quite a bit and I've talked to a lot of men about it because I found it rather odd.
And the answer I have come up with is because in men compete with other men for women not against women.
And I think this is the root of things like he throws like a girl or this and that quality are feminine because these things do not advantage you men in the competition. It's not because women are just not worth anything in the man's mind if this was a baseball game the field is full of men and the stands are full of women.
A professional baseball player doesn't see a kid catching a foul ball as competition because he's not in the competition.
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5. Even the way you put it here, "exploring her sexuality" is like dabbling in a cutesy hobby. Not having an actual relationship with a whole arse other human being. What if I wanted to "explore my sexuality" with a man who is into things my husband isn't into? Is that much different? Why?
I don't know why it comes off as belittling to describe exploring ones sexuality as exploring one sexuality and that's just what it is. Men don't measure themselves against other women. We aren't taught to see women as competition. If anything were taught the exact opposite from really young ages. We are taught that we are the protectors of women. And I don't care if it's a feminist teacher or a meaningless teacher or anything in between they all teach you that they all reinforced that role. So we're not in competition with women. The only guys that are are gay guys who date bisexual guys.
So even viewing yourself is in competition with women is emasculating. And it's not about the man personally it's about the way he's viewed.
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For me it has always been easier to just not have sex with other people at all when I'm in a relationship. But when my husband and I discussed it, we came to a point where he realized that in fact it wasn't really a matter of just women versus all other men...it was a question of feeling safe and respected in our relationship. As such, there was a couple I dated for a while when he and I were first together, and we're still very close friends with although it's no longer a sex/romance thing...more of a chosen family thing...but he's said that if I wanted to have sex with the man in that couple, he'd feel very differently about that than some other hypothetical man or some other men we know...because he knows him pretty well and feels that this guy respects him, me, us, our marriage. If we were to be "open" like that...which we're not...but if we were...that could possibly be alright. That was interesting, anyhow.
But ultimately I do know that we cannot always control how we feel, what makes us feel insecure or uncomfortable. It does not always align with what we may logically believe. There are times when those feelings might be his or mine to just...manage. With love and support from the other, certainly, but they don't get to dictate rules in our relationship.
Men are treated differently as small boys than little girls. Even if a man is in direct competition for a woman's affections with another woman he will not recognize it. It is so deeply ingrained and us that we are not to compete with women or girls that we refuse to.
An example of this and the backlash it caused. There was a swimmer he was a man and then he figured out that he was transgender and started swimming with the girls teams that wasn't unacceptable because she is viewed as a man and the men do not absolutely do not compete with women they compete for them. Why that was such a big deal is because it's going against something that is ingrained in us and probably has been since antiquity.
I remember when I was in Police academy we were doing some hand-to-hand practice stuff I never a few ladies and police academy and because they're going to go up against guys in the field they had to go up against guys in training. I'm a big guy and it's partnered up with a small guy to do a takedown I took him down with very little effort and it was funny to everyone there they all laughed. He trained in front of my God and if I am quite clumsy and you need me in the thigh and it caused my need to buckle and I was down. Like David and Goliath. And that was funny.
One of the ladies went up against an average sized guy and she took him out fast kind of threw him over her hip it was quite a move. That was funny. When the girl went up against a guy and that guy was taking her down everyone in that class stood up on their feet ready to rip him apart.
It was just a gut reaction almost like an instinct. Women are to be protected I know this probably feels quite and vandalizing the women but you can't blame us we are products of our society. And if women didn't want us to grow up to be protectors of women they wouldn't ingrain that in us I had a mother I have female teachers. I was taught by all of these people even empowered women that girls are more fragile maybe they are I don't know.
I don't know how many guys have really thought about this. The only reason I have personally is because I've completely as a man checked out of the competition for women. And I kind of have a bird's eye view because I'm not in it. And I can't believe how much of my life was consumed with that when I was in the closet. I was just doing what the other boys or with the other men were doing so that nobody would catch on to me. When I stopped I couldn't believe it. I was awestruck by how much of a man's time and how much of his vigor and life is given to the possibility of being with a woman. How much their self worth is tied up into it.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 09-01-2022 at 09:36 AM..
Reason: Vulgar language; circumventing the filter.
What if all the struggle bros just started hooking up with each other?
If that happened men as you know them would change entirely.
I know it's likely just a joke or a funny phrase but I've actually thought about this.
Primary components of a masculinity are actually dictated by women not other men. The only reason other men and enforce it is because you want to see their sons succeed.
If men no longer gave a damn about impressing women, we would stop building skyscrapers we would stop buying sports cars we would probably stop bathing quite as much. We would probably cry out in the open a lot more over the silliest things.
I dated men and if a man's not interested in me right away and he is interested in men all I have to do to get him interested in me it's showing my picture of my penis, that's like a bouquet of flowers and a romantic date.
If guys in general just switch to dating guys they wouldn't put hardly any effort into anything. Because it's really effortless guys want to have sex if a guy tells you he doesn't want to have sex he's lying to you. If you just got finished emasculating and and treating him like dirt maybe even physically rubbing dirt in his eyes. Pick up his hand and put it on your body soft flesh he'll be ready in 10 minutes. If you want it right now we're never he'll just live with the dirt in his eyes.
And that's every guy we're that horny it starts 11 years old. Why do you think all these female School teachers are getting busy with male students. All you have to do is say come here the only ones that doesn't work on are the gay ones.
The ick factor would be insurmountable and besides, the pheromones would be all wrong.
The x Factor is really just crossing a barrier into the unknown I think the idea that mother's a straight guy being close to another guy is that they're a guy. I don't think pheromones are really part of a human sexual experience.
The x Factor is really just crossing a barrier into the unknown I think the idea that mother's a straight guy being close to another guy is that they're a guy. I don't think pheromones are really part of a human sexual experience.
I'm seeing a lot of good insights by you here but as far as the bolded goes I could not disagree more. There is only one thing that hits me in the core more than kissing a woman in the back of the neck, right behind her ear, and it's not something I could say here and remain in the PG13 realm. It's the reason I think male to female trans people are so repulsive to many straight men. Especially those who "pass". It doesn't matter what a person looks like or acts like but if you go to certain places and your hind brain is expecting to find female pheromones but finds male ones instead, that's gotta be an almost violent assault on the senses.
I think that's how a good portion of the best relationships happen, as subjective as the term best may be.
I think there's a bit of spontaneity involved. Fair me. This goofy 19 year old who I'd never had considered pursuing (way too young) weaseled his way into my heart. It caught me so off guard and I think that's why it worked.
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We go on and on about these issues but at the end of the day when you meet the right one it just kind of happens. I know that's how it worked for me. When I tried to make something happen, it didn't. When I just let something happen, it did.
I think going on and on about these issues are important. Talking about it helped me prepare for the slings and arrows. Looking back on it, it was totally different than any other relationship. Discussing these things actually help us understand ourselves better.
I'm seeing a lot of good insights by you here but as far as the bolded goes I could not disagree more. There is only one thing that hits me in the core more than kissing a woman in the back of the neck, right behind her ear, and it's not something I could say here and remain in the PG13 realm. It's the reason I think male to female trans people are so repulsive to many straight men. Especially those who "pass". It doesn't matter what a person looks like or acts like but if you go to certain places and your hind brain is expecting to find female pheromones but finds male ones instead, that's gotta be an almost violent assault on the senses.
Well there is no evidence to suggest humans secrete pheromones. And our olfactory neural connections don't seem to register pheromones though gay men seen to have a completely different neutral activity connected to olfactory bulbs than straight men or straight women.
And I must say I really rather like the sent of my partner's skin. Not cologne, not his soap but his skin. So there may be some hormonal excreting that we just aren't aware of.
I've only known one man that guy together with a trans woman and he was absolutely straight until that point.
What you say here, Hankrigby, is more of what I consider to be "mainstream" culture stuff. And I'll certainly concede that if you grow up immersed in it, it may well feel like universal stuff. It's not, though.
Euskalherria would have some words about being fetishized. He doesn't like it one bit. And in the kink scene, I know a man who is really good at fancy rope stuff who is sick of being just seen as just a fetish dispenser, and has stopped attending events because of it.
Also, it's a little known fact that the vast majority of written erotica and fan fic involving gay male sexual encounters, is written by straight women. A minority of straight women, certainly, but still.
What you say here, Hankrigby, is more of what I consider to be "mainstream" culture stuff. And I'll certainly concede that if you grow up immersed in it, it may well feel like universal stuff. It's not, though.
No not universal, it's general. There are always exceptions I agree.
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Euskalherria would have some words about being fetishized. He doesn't like it one bit. And in the kink scene, I know a man who is really good at fancy rope stuff who is sick of being just seen as just a fetish dispenser, and has stopped attending events because of it.
well I do like the femboy asthenic it's not a fetish it's just I find it attractive. The idea that a man can be beautiful just like a woman appeals to me. Is that what fetishized means? If so that's shaming me for my sexuality. I'm a lot more sensitive to this because I was convinced my sexuality was evil and every single Bible thumper in my family presumed to tell me homosexuality is just a fetish.
People creeping on you or just wanting to ride the carousel is one thing.
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Also, it's a little known fact that the vast majority of written erotica and fan fic involving gay male sexual encounters, is written by straight women. A minority of straight women, certainly, but still.
There are more things under the sun...
most erotica in general is written for women. I've not met to many straight women that into seeing two guys together.
I have no idea what else to call them. But the vernacular is (___) hag. It's really a term of endearment in the gay circles. These women are typically straight and find gay men endearing. They don't want to watch us do the horizontal Mambo.
Personally don't see what the allure of being easy is and prefer to maintain morals and standards until I meet the right one.
Exactly ! Even as a guy if you wanna keep clear hear, heart and judgement and expect these things to actually mean something as they are suppose to, it is the best way to go. But it will usually be argued against in forums by women and men for 20yrs when it comes up. My thoughts when it is though , just check out their history !
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