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I'm glad you steered this back to the OP. What i quoted from you above, is the crux of the issue IMO.
I'm also not clear if he does not intend it or does, and doesn't care for the reactions.
It probably comes down to this- OP posted in #34.
Quote:
How do you think a man may start to feel when he is seen as more of a perennial threat than a human being going about his day? A common response to these questions tends to be along the lines of, "Well, don't blame women, rather blame the men who have made women be constantly on edge." What does this mean, precisely? Should I be made to absolve the sins of all the wayward men I have nothing to do with?
Men don't want to be associated with or mistaken for the guys who do cause problems. "I'm one of the good guys so don't treat me like I'm one of those brutes or I'll be very insulted". It's a kind of personal butt hurt which is pretty common. They should understand it's not personal.
But what are you gonna do, these women don't know him and there is no magic trick when it comes to women who are particularly sensitive such that a man really just going about his day causes her distress or fear.
It may just be that OP is fine, but is sensitive enough to notice when women are uncomfortable whereas a lot of men would have no idea.
You claim it is innate biology for men to provide. A look at reality and the number of men that refuse to provide for their children would prove otherwise.
Some men are providers and protectors some men are not. It is not "your biology" That is what it has to do with any of this.
I'm still under the assumption that the OP was referring to making women feel safe as in not making them feel unsafe in your presence so IDK what protecting and providing has to do with any of this.
Your assumption isn't universal. People can and will define 'feeling safe" differently. Biology plays a part in EVERYTHING we feel and do between men and women and it's not my biology. Acknowledging that feelings of safety have a measurable underlying neurophysiological substrate would shift investigations of feelings of safety from a subjective to an objective science.
Feeling safe, is just that a feeling. Being safe is certainly better.
Yes lol, that was put more succinctly and clearly.
Ok, then I can get on board with that. I believe that is generally true although, as with everything else, there are exceptions on both sides.
I do prefer an assertive man, but then I prefer to be in the company of assertive women as well.
Your assumption isn't universal. People can and will define 'feeling safe" differently. Biology plays a part in EVERYTHING we feel and do between men and women and it's not my biology. Acknowledging that feelings of safety have a measurable underlying neurophysiological substrate would shift investigations of feelings of safety from a subjective to an objective science.
Feeling safe, is just that a feeling. Being safe is certainly better.
I did not say my assumption was universal, I said I was under the assumption. But I am going by the OP's clarification: "Do I have a responsibility to constantly adjust my movements, speech and gaze so as not to make a woman uncomfortable? Do I just "suck it up" every time a woman crosses the street as I approach, shifts nervously in an elevator as I enter or clutches her purse if I happen to be standing too close in her estimation? ....... Should I have to walk on eggshells my entire life while dealing with women in the name of good manners? How do you think a man may start to feel when he is seen as more of a perennial threat than a human being going about his day?"
Again you said: "She needs a secure 'place', a safe place and if she has children, she her children protected too. Those are inherently something a woman needs. A man also has a biology to provide those things for her, in a committed relationship."
This reads to me as an inherent biological drive for men to provide, and for women an inherent biological need for safety. Not as "biology plays a part" in how men and women feel.
So which is it?
I'm glad you steered this back to the OP. What i quoted from you above, is the crux of the issue IMO.
I'm also not clear if he does not intend it or does, and doesn't care for the reactions.
Yeah, I mean, it's an issue sometimes with threads, we get a thread title asking a specific question and it sends us off in half a dozen directions.
I mean, it's fine that some guys are into being protectors and providers. Good for them! Some women really value that. I don't, and some other women don't...but plenty do. It IS annoying to constantly see talk of evo-psych and "biology" brought up to try and make these things universal "objective fact" when clearly they are not.
For instance, our OP is not trying to protect or provide for any women. He's given up even trying to get a date. He is just worried about going through normal life, whether random women see him as a threat, and what, if anything, he is obligated to do about it. As he said, even if we've got good reasons by way of other men, how is that his problem? Well, it isn't. But being distressed about the idea is not exactly typical and that IS his problem in terms of his peace of mind and quality of life. And furthermore as I mentioned in an earlier post somewhere up yonder...I got a few reps from (presumably?) different guys who said they felt this way, too. And I can recall over the years I've been on this forum, there are men who feel really hypersensitive about how they might be perceived by women.
It is a thing.
It has nothing to do with whether the Modern Caveman has a baked in predisposition to fighting off bad guys or opening car doors or picking up the check for dinner. I'm pretty sure that these fellas are not troubled by any sense of obligation to do any such things.
And...again...the basic premise of "my behavior/words were intended as X, but other person/people/woman/women read it as Y, which was not my intent, and I don't know what I did wrong"...that sounds like the struggle that many autistic folks have to live with. At the very least if not, some of the similar social coaching that exists for them could perhaps be helpful, if someone wants to be helped.
I dont think "make you feel safe" and "risk life and limb to save you" are the same thing.
I was responding to this person who was talking about being physically attacked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh-eve
oh yeah? Speak for yourself. I am tall and casually practice kickboxing. However, I don't stand a chance against most guys if they would attack me.
May not have been the intention of the OP, but that's the direction the conversation went. I was just responding, saying women need to take responsibility for their own safety and not automatically assume or expect anyone else to come save them (which could put that person's life or limb in danger). Protect yourself. It's your responsibility. That's all.
I did not say my assumption was universal, I said I was under the assumption. But I am going by the OP's clarification: "Do I have a responsibility to constantly adjust my movements, speech and gaze so as not to make a woman uncomfortable? Do I just "suck it up" every time a woman crosses the street as I approach, shifts nervously in an elevator as I enter or clutches her purse if I happen to be standing too close in her estimation? ....... Should I have to walk on eggshells my entire life while dealing with women in the name of good manners? How do you think a man may start to feel when he is seen as more of a perennial threat than a human being going about his day?"
Again you said: "She needs a secure 'place', a safe place and if she has children, she her children protected too. Those are inherently something a woman needs. A man also has a biology to provide those things for her, in a committed relationship."
This reads to me as an inherent biological drive for men to provide, and for women an inherent biological need for safety. Not as "biology plays a part" in how men and women feel.
So which is it?
Both.
Quote:
Emotions tag our experiences and act as signposts to steer our behavior. Avoiding danger and pursuing rewards is essential for successful navigation through a complex environment, and thus for survival. The search for the neural correlate of emotions has fascinated not only scientists – after all, emotions are a central part of our mental self.
Yes. If she is in my company it is my responsibility to insure her safety.
Other than common decency and respect for me, she has no responsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane
I think that's how I feel about my dog.
You're not a man. It doesn't matter how you feel about your dog.
When the stuff gets into the fan and things go south, the great majority of women will wish they had a man to help instead of their best girlfriend.
I was responding to this person who was talking about being physically attacked:
May not have been the intention of the OP, but that's the direction the conversation went. I was just responding, saying women need to take responsibility for their own safety and not automatically assume or expect anyone else to come save them (which could put that person's life or limb in danger). Protect yourself. It's your responsibility. That's all.
Absolutely true.
Number #1 is situational awareness. If your gut says "unsafe" go with your gut. Let your heart have a voice, but listen to your gut.
Feeling safe must be measurable and provable too, but feeling are just that.
You're not a man. It doesn't matter how you feel about your dog.
When the stuff gets into the fan and things go south, the great majority of women will wish they had a man to help instead of their best girlfriend.
To help what?
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