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You know what I find sad? In a lot of conversations about child custody, I get the main impression that the primary reason men argue about Dads getting custody, how it's not fair, etc...it's not at all about raising an actual child, it's mainly about "winning" and hurting the mother.
I've seen it in person, I knew a guy who was on the beginning edge of a divorce and he was talking about demanding custody of the kids because his wife cheated. He was full of vindictive rage, hated her guts, but I did not have the impression that she was a bad mother, just arguably a bad wife. I asked if he actually wanted to raise the kids, had the time to spend with them, was willing to miss work when they were sick or whatever, knew how much work was involved... He said, no, he was just going to hand them off to his Mom to raise. I don't think he'd even asked his Mom if she was willing to do so.
Courts are usually going to look at what is best for the kids. If one parent has traditionally done nearly all of the work of raising the kids, and has a closer bond with them, they are not going to side with a vindictive other parent...and if money is all that's lacking for the caregiving parent, then that's what child support is for. This can be an unfortunate side effect of the idea that men's job is to be providers and that's all, go home and play video games after work, when women are now being providers AND caregivers. If you feel entitled to custody of your kids if a divorce were ever to occur, you might want to get some practice at doing the actual job.
And yes, of course I know that many Dads are actively involved with raising their kids. And yes, I know that bad mothers also exist. Before ya'll even start.
When we talk about topics of men and women some posters make it about men vs women. Lets see where we agree. Feel free to add...
Feeling safe is different from being safe
We are all responsible for our own safety
Keeping ourselves out of unsafe situations is first and forement
Men have greater physical capacity to protect women from violence
Men have a responsibility to protect their female partners
Women have a resonsibility to protect themselves and family when their partner is not around
People should 'watch out' for other people, especially those more vunerable
You know what I find sad? In a lot of conversations about child custody, I get the main impression that the primary reason men argue about Dads getting custody, how it's not fair, etc...it's not at all about raising an actual child, it's mainly about "winning" and hurting the mother.
I've seen it in person, I knew a guy who was on the beginning edge of a divorce and he was talking about demanding custody of the kids because his wife cheated. He was full of vindictive rage, hated her guts, but I did not have the impression that she was a bad mother, just arguably a bad wife. I asked if he actually wanted to raise the kids, had the time to spend with them, was willing to miss work when they were sick or whatever, knew how much work was involved... He said, no, he was just going to hand them off to his Mom to raise. I don't think he'd even asked his Mom if she was willing to do so.
Courts are usually going to look at what is best for the kids. If one parent has traditionally done nearly all of the work of raising the kids, and has a closer bond with them, they are not going to side with a vindictive other parent...and if money is all that's lacking for the caregiving parent, then that's what child support is for. This can be an unfortunate side effect of the idea that men's job is to be providers and that's all, go home and play video games after work, when women are now being providers AND caregivers. If you feel entitled to custody of your kids if a divorce were ever to occur, you might want to get some practice at doing the actual job.
And yes, of course I know that many Dads are actively involved with raising their kids. And yes, I know that bad mothers also exist. Before ya'll even start.
I have definitely seen the bolded. And it was the father who was granted custody mainly due to the vindictive behavior of the mother.
When we talk about topics of men and women some posters make it about men vs women. Lets see where we agree. Feel free to add...
Feeling safe is different from being safe
We are all responsible for our own safety
Keeping ourselves out of unsafe situations is first and forement
Men have greater physical capacity to protect women from violence Men have a responsibility to protect their female partners
Women have a resonsibility to protect themselves and family when their partner is not around
People should 'watch out' for other people, especially those more vunerable
I don't agree with this one as stated. If two people have chosen this dynamic and have this understanding, then that's cool. But I would argue that people in healthy committed relationships should bring whatever resources to bear to protect their partner as they would themselves.
My husband is not that much bigger than me and not that much stronger than me, more to the point he is getting old. He has some health issues. He is not obligated to "protect me" in some physical "manly man" way. I didn't choose him for that. I never expected it. If anything I feel protective of him. In no way do I feel that this makes him less masculine - there are many ways to be a man.
He protects my future with our plans for his inherited assets. He protects my peace of mind with his support and thoughtful presence. And he does not make choices that put me or us in danger.
I also protect him in a lot of ways, having nothing to do with taking imaginary bullets or jumping in front of imaginary speeding trains.
I don't go through life in constant fear of bad guys or physical threats, which generally don't tend to be a problem, because I can look out for myself and I have good situational awareness. If I am going somewhere a bit dangerous, like a metal concert, I'm going alone. I am not taking my husband. Experience has taught me that this is going to be a lot safer.
When we talk about topics of men and women some posters make it about men vs women. Lets see where we agree. Feel free to add...
Feeling safe is different from being safe
We are all responsible for our own safety
Keeping ourselves out of unsafe situations is first and forement
Men have greater physical capacity to protect women from violence
Men have a responsibility to protect their female partners
Women have a resonsibility to protect themselves and family when their partner is not around
People should 'watch out' for other people, especially those more vunerable
Basically, but its not all that black and white.
While feeling safe is indeed different from being safe that feeling is often an indication of danger like a spidey sense and the catalyst that moves us to take responsibility for our own safety.
And again with the unsafe situations. There are obvious unsafe situations but there are also threats/danger in normal seemingly safe situations, even if we are just considering stranger danger.
It seems to me women are getting called out for being too cautious of strangers at the same time getting called out for not being cautious enough.
The only way to keep oneself 100% out of unsafe situations is to totally isolate oneself and even then, home invasions.
And again with the unsafe situations. There are obvious unsafe situations but there are also threats/danger in normal seemingly safe situations, even if we are just considering stranger danger.
It seems to me women are getting called out for being too cautious of strangers at the same time getting called out for not being cautious enough.
The only way to keep oneself 100% out of unsafe situations is to totally isolate oneself and even then, home invasions.
And "unsafe" situations can be tricky, too. I, as a educated middle class white woman, have the privilege of living in a good neighborhood, and can drive my own car and work a job that gives me regular, flexible hours. Some women have to live in "bad" neighborhoods. They might take public transportation late at night after their shift work. Others might have shady roommates or abusive partners. They deserve to be safe, as well, even though it's not as easy for them to make safe choices.
This is true, and also there are some women who think it's harmless to be aggressive or start fights or be physical, with the expectation that men will protect them from the consequences. That's not cute.
I met a couple of women that acted that way, luckily, they were my buddies' girlfriends though. The world has changed, so not anymore.
A man that's a man would want to make the woman he's in a relationship with feel safe both physically and emotionally. Physically is plain enough. Emotionally, he wouldn't try to control her, to isolate her from her friends, he would support and encourage her in whatever her goals are, he would always leave the lines of communication open and not give her the silent treatment because he's upset with her for some reason. He wouldn't raise his voice during an argument. He would never make fun of her or constantly tell jokes at her expense in front of other people nor constantly correct her in front of other people. He would always do his best to keep the romance alive as well as the friendship. He would always show that he can be relied on and trusted. He would always. . .always be there for her.
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great point
