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That said, I’m curious as to your point relative to the thread; are you (nonsensically) suggesting women who are more ‘traditionally-minded’ or ‘feminine’ than their counterparts are more likely to tolerate cheating, as a whole, particularly in this day and age?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
The rich wives may be more willing to say: "She's just getting the bone, without getting the meat" and roll with it. (With due credit to whoever sang that originally).
My point is there’s a distinction between two professional individuals (who are psychologically well) as part of a healthy, stable relationship (relative to the thread) vs. a lack of psychological health, dysfunction and/or financial dependence. The former are less likely to cheat (or tolerate it) as they are also more likely to postpone marriage and/or be more certain/confident in what they seek or have.
I think i said feeling of Supression, or at least that is what I am meant to say, you do actaully have to be surprssed to feel surpressed.
As for this 'When it comes to the interpretations of "toxic masculinity" or "patriarchy"... I mean, the statements you make here sound like "if men do not get their way, they will lash out violently,
I dont interprete it that way at all.
A lot of guys hate terms like Toxic Mascuality - (Interpreted as Men are Toxic), Rape Culture (Interpreted that rape is some how acceptable), my most hated in is mansplaining (you cant have an opinion about anything), and then putting up with things like Domestic Violence/rape is common and its a male problem (I am accused of guilty for of a hideous crime, when i am totally innocent). When you put all this together and reapeate it for years on end, a few are simply going to decide they have had enough and lash out. Its not because they are not getting there own way - but because all the above makes them feel supressed unheard and unwanted.
I think the rest has been covered quite will by the other posters.
Wow, the one you hate is mansplaining because you can't have an opinion about anything.
So I don't know what your profession is or has been in your lifetime, think of something that you are an actual expert in. Like you worked to gain knowledge and expertise, you've got serious cred in this.
Now think of some bozo condescending to you and explaining it (wrongly) as though you are stupid and child-minded because they feel in a position of authority or dominance over you. They don't care what you think or that you've got a whole career in the thing, they know better because they say they do. Has this ever happened to you? Can you imagine how you might feel if it did?
It's happened to me. I am an expert in global energy and fuels markets, I am on twice monthly meetings about the current market trends and things going on all over the world. When fuel prices go up here or there, I usually know exactly why. It is part of my job to know. I have to advise our international, multi million dollar clients about energy and fuel procurement strategies. And I have been in this line of work for decades.
I was at a dinner, meeting some of my husband's family who were visiting. And his cousin, who is probably in his 70s, insisted on a political talking point he believed in being the absolute cause for something involved in energy pricing in his region. I happen to know better and began to say so, but he loudly raised his voice and spoke over me and would. not. listen. And this is after he was told what I do for a living.
I've watched a man argue with a woman about the correct pronunciation of her own name.
I don't know how many times I've had a man try to tell me what I think or how I feel, and insist that any contradiction I may assert is just me being "in denial" or "dishonest." I think I know the inside of my own head better than some stranger. I mean, we are only a couple of generations from when women were not treated like entire people, were instead something between child-pet-broodmare, where a man would go to his wife's doctor's appointment and the doctor would explain her condition and treatment to HIM and not to HER. It is within living memory that women could not have their own bank accounts or credit cards in the US.
So yes, I think that women have a right to get annoyed when some man's ego is taken by all and sundry to give him superior knowledge on any subject under the sun even if she's literally an expert in it. And you saying that this is some sort of "men aren't allowed to have opinions" is once again you nomming up outrage porn because no, that has never been what that meant.
I can agree that men have some struggles too in this world. But I'm not going to accept a position that men never do things that women should not have to put up with. Or that if they do, we should shut up and not complain about it. The existence of your concerns does not invalidate the concerns of anyone else.
Even if buzzy made up soundbite words to describe any of it, ARE in fact annoying.
Wow, the one you hate is mansplaining because you can't have an opinion about anything.
So I don't know what your profession is or has been in your lifetime, think of something that you are an actual expert in. Like you worked to gain knowledge and expertise, you've got serious cred in this.
Now think of some bozo condescending to you and explaining it (wrongly) as though you are stupid and child-minded because they feel in a position of authority or dominance over you. They don't care what you think or that you've got a whole career in the thing, they know better because they say they do. Has this ever happened to you? Can you imagine how you might feel if it did?
It's happened to me. I am an expert in global energy and fuels markets, I am on twice monthly meetings about the current market trends and things going on all over the world. When fuel prices go up here or there, I usually know exactly why. It is part of my job to know. I have to advise our international, multi million dollar clients about energy and fuel procurement strategies. And I have been in this line of work for decades.
I was at a dinner, meeting some of my husband's family who were visiting. And his cousin, who is probably in his 70s, insisted on a political talking point he believed in being the absolute cause for something involved in energy pricing in his region. I happen to know better and began to say so, but he loudly raised his voice and spoke over me and would. not. listen. And this is after he was told what I do for a living.
I've watched a man argue with a woman about the correct pronunciation of her own name.
I don't know how many times I've had a man try to tell me what I think or how I feel, and insist that any contradiction I may assert is just me being "in denial" or "dishonest." I think I know the inside of my own head better than some stranger. I mean, we are only a couple of generations from when women were not treated like entire people, were instead something between child-pet-broodmare, where a man would go to his wife's doctor's appointment and the doctor would explain her condition and treatment to HIM and not to HER. It is within living memory that women could not have their own bank accounts or credit cards in the US.
So yes, I think that women have a right to get annoyed when some man's ego is taken by all and sundry to give him superior knowledge on any subject under the sun even if she's literally an expert in it. And you saying that this is some sort of "men aren't allowed to have opinions" is once again you nomming up outrage porn because no, that has never been what that meant.
I can agree that men have some struggles too in this world. But I'm not going to accept a position that men never do things that women should not have to put up with. Or that if they do, we should shut up and not complain about it. The existence of your concerns does not invalidate the concerns of anyone else.
Even if buzzy made up soundbite words to describe any of it, ARE in fact annoying.
Again you can talk about actual definitions all you like, however when the term is starting to be used as a means to shut down political debate in the Australian Parliment (Which it has) - that is enough for me.
You realize everything you described women already experienced? Being suppressed in school, being omitted from courses and programs.
Gender quotas mean that this has been pretty much reversed. My sister in law is an IT professional, she got her job as part of a gender drive. My brother (So my SIL husband) on the other hand is a miner (an extremely high paying Job in Australia, which gets him about $150,000 USD a year), he is now facing redundancy as part of a drive which has turned the mining company he works for from predomintaly male to 50% female in 9 years.
This is the exact policy of the largest listed corporation in Australia and naturally one of the biggest employers, which until very recently had a predominatly male workforce. The Linked article is 7 years old and has been in full appliation since.
I'd prefer someone with their own interests, ambitions, passions beyond the domestic sphere.
How many women (even) exist in this day and age who don’t have ‘their own interests, passions or ambitions beyond the domestic sphere’.
From my perspective, the gist of the thread is really whether or not we’d prefer a woman who is more nurturing, selfless or ‘traditionally feminine’ in that she would want to temporarily stay home with a kid initially (if that be a few months to a few years). Obviously, this does not mean she doesn’t have her own career and ambitions beyond a ‘domestic sphere’ i.e. it’s about nurturing a kid (and solidifying a loving bond/environment beyond what a daycare could provide); it’s certainly not about ‘domestic duties’ or having nothing better to do, lol.
How many women (even) exist in this day and age who don’t have ‘their own interests, passions or ambitions beyond the domestic sphere’.
From my perspective, the gist of the thread is really whether or not we’d prefer a woman who is more nurturing, selfless or ‘traditionally feminine’ in that she would want to temporarily stay home with a kid initially (if that be a few months to a few years). Obviously, this does not mean she doesn’t have her own career and ambitions beyond a ‘domestic sphere’ i.e. it’s about nurturing a kid (and solidifying a loving bond/environment beyond what a daycare could provide); it’s certainly not about ‘domestic duties’ or having nothing better to do, lol.
Virtually none in IMOHO.
I am not sure how many men would look upon a girl without her own interests, passions and ambitions as a negative?
This part of the OP’s definition of traditional women “sex whenever the husband wants, does more listening than talking, keeps her opinions to herself”, sounds far more like some kind of fantasy born out of a virgin male with a porn addiction, rather than any actual reality of dealing with a woman.
From my perspective, the gist of the thread is really whether or not we’d prefer a woman who is more nurturing, selfless or ‘traditionally feminine’ in that she would want to temporarily stay home with a kid initially (if that be a few months to a few years). Obviously, this does not mean she doesn’t have her own career and ambitions beyond a ‘domestic sphere’ i.e. it’s about nurturing a kid (and solidifying a loving bond/environment beyond what a daycare could provide); it’s certainly not about ‘domestic duties’ or having nothing better to do, lol.
The OP specifically defined a modern woman as someone who earns about half of the household income.
Presumably, the modern woman is also supposed to resume earning that income when she returns to work after staying home with her kids for a few years.
So, this is the hypothetical person we are dealing with in this thread.
But we haven't, at least not where I live.
Shop classes are still in the high school even, and vo-tech is going strong.
Apprentice programs are still in existence also, with the various unions in the area.
Where I live also. They offer all sorts of classes at the high school and what they don't have facilities for the students can take at the technical school that is with in walking distance of the high school. All courses are open to both boys and girls. Not like it was in my day where girls were not permitted to take shop/trades or auto mechanics.
Not like it was in my day where girls were not permitted to take shop/trades or auto mechanics.
Yep, for me also.
But for my kids... the boys had to take 6 weeks sewing, and the girls had to take 6 weeks shop (among other choices over the course of the school year).
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