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I do not believe men must relinquish their rights or responsibilities. It isn't about taking away from one group to give to another, it is about creating a level playing field so everyone can have equality.
Yup. I'd like to know what we're taking away from men. They have the same rights and opportuntities they've always had. The only change is less responsibility. Today, if my dh and I divorced we'd both be held financially responsible for our children. It wasn't that long ago that, if I won child support and could collect, he'd be supporting us after the marriage ended.
You'd think men would welcome equal rights. The only thing they lose is the right to lord over us. If they think that's a loss, I don't need them anywhere near me.
Feminism DID ruin relationships between men and women -- but in Feminism's defense it had to work VERY hard against a patriarchal system and male-dominated society in order to do so!
This is quite true. Young women get hired into good positions primarily if they are good looking. However, the same applies to young men.
If they leave the job to have a family, they will never get these opportunities again. However, this is lookism and has very little to do with their sex.
The problem is that many young women neglect those things that they need to get ahead. A BA may only get you in the door. Its easy to forget, when she initially gets promoted quickly, due to her appearance, that in the long run, more is needed. Males seem to get this, mainly because they don't have it easy at the start. To me, this is a big reason for the glass ceiling.
I really didn't see women getting promoted on appearance. It might get you an interview but you still had to prove you had the right stuff.
I was shoulder tapped for upper management (turned it down) and I've never been a looker. They wanted more female managers and thought I'd make a good one. I'm not management material though so I passed.
To be honest, I think more men are promoted on looks than women. Being good looking and female is equated with being stupid. Unfortunately, so is being old and female. Men get wise. Women get used up.
Feminism DID ruin relationships between men and women -- but in Feminism's defense it had to work VERY hard against a patriarchal system and male-dominated society in order to do so!
The only relationships feminism ruined NEEDED to be ruined. The ones that were good are still good. Feminism doesn't affect those.
Feminism DID ruin relationships between men and women -- but in Feminism's defense it had to work VERY hard against a patriarchal system and male-dominated society in order to do so!
Urb, did you see the link I posted?
I haven't found being a feminist ruinous to any relationship I have had. Both of my long term relationships benefited enormously by my independence. I guess everyone has their own experiences though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna
I found this nice little article called 'The Interpersonal Power of Feminism: Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships?'
While I won't bore people with the entire article the synopsis states;
Past research suggests that women and men alike perceive feminism and romance to be in conflict (Rudman and Fairchild, Psychol Women Q, 31:125–136, 2007). A survey of US undergraduates (N = 242) and an online survey of older US adults (N = 289) examined the accuracy of this perception. Using self-reported feminism and perceived partners’ feminism as predictors of relationship health, results revealed that having a feminist partner was linked to healthier relationships for women. Additionally, men with feminist partners reported greater relationship stability and sexual satisfaction in the online survey. Finally, there was no support for negative feminist stereotypes (i.e., that feminists are single, lesbians, or unattractive). In concert, the findings reveal that beliefs regarding the incompatibility of feminism and romance are inaccurate.
Not that I agree, but why is that a problem. If it is a transference of power, then it is safe to say men have always been in power. If you didnt have a problem with that and feel feminism wasnt necessary and women had it so good with men in power, it would stand to reason what was good for the goose will be good for the gander. You should embrace western feminism and sit back and let us women take care of you.
Plenty of men are doing just that, but then feminists turn around and try to shame them as Peter Pans and not "doing the right thing". As if! This sort of touches on where the US is going:
Basically men will be secondary breadwinners in a lot of homes, assuming they can even find employment. Those without women to support them are going to be adding to a future crime level a lot of people aren't prepared for. A great example of what's on the horizon for the US in general is what happened the last 20 years in our inner cities. Men were displaced from the home and jobs, crime skyrocketed, and gangs rule the streets in many areas. It's a prototype for what happens in a society where men are disposable and/or undervalued. The flip side is govt subsidies for all the fatherless children so even more socialism is required to prop up the system.
What eventually happens is either women get jobs to support themselves or the system implodes when men opt out or can't work and they can't be taxed to feed into the system to pay out all the handouts. That's the failing of socialism, and ultimately modern feminism. It's possible the US could incur a tax rate similar to Sweden to make ends meet. Before we get to this point though states are going to take a beating, much like California already is starting to. The first that will go is state and federal incomes and pensions. After that it will be school and infrastructure funding. Somewhere in the mix the military will get large portions of the budget cut out. It's a slow and inevitable death until the system crashes under it's own weight. This was all spelled out in detail at The Futurist a few months back.
On top of all that equality will actually happen and whem women finally do take up the reigns and occupy their fair share of dirty & dangerous jobs, which I'm all for when they take good jobs too (equality!), the other side of that coin is that men will be the protected class as they will be lagging behind in many respects. It's already happening in academia. Plus as women take more lowbrow jobs it should free up positions for men to climb the corporate ladder for a change. Right now all the systemic and purposeful advantages are geared towards women and minorities. When whites and men in general are the minority are those same special interest programs going to help them out? It's something to think about as trends predict by mid century whites will be the minority and women will make up most of academia and college graduates. Where's the balance then? Hmmm? Fair is fair after all.
Plenty of men are doing just that, but then feminists turn around and try to shame them as Peter Pans and not "doing the right thing". As if!
If women want to take up the reigns and occupy their fair share of dirty & dangerous jobs, I'm all for it. The other side of that coin is that it should free up positions for men to climb the corporate ladder for a change. Right now all the systemic and purposeful advantages are geared towards women and minorities. When whites and men in general are the minority are those same special interest programs going to help them out? It's something to think about as trends predict by mid century whites will be the minority and women will make up most of academia and college graduates. Where's the balance then? Hmmm? Fair is fair after all.
What feminists and what shaming.
Dont know what makes you think men havent been freed up and climbing the corporate ladder.
It has been asked over and over, could you please define specific systemic and purposeful advantages women have and basic rights feminism has taken away from men.
You will already have equal rights, as far as special interest groups and programs that would be up to you as a group.
Men are not being displaced, they are opting out because they do not want to compete with women. Men are not disposable, just as women are not. We can balance this if people are willing to work together. I'm sorry some men cannot handle women being the family breadwinner (having a higher wage, higher status job). This attitude needs to change and strong, smart men can support other men in dealing with the psychological effects of equality. Why is this never addressed?
I just returned from my local bank. All the bank tellers are women, and all the loan officers and bank managers are men. Why?
The explanation for the female tellers is easy. It's because undereducated, non-professional men can find better paying jobs in other fields such as in building and construction, fishing, logging, mechanics, etc.
But why are all management positions predominately men? Do women not apply for these positions?
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Yup. I'd like to know what we're taking away from men. They have the same rights and opportuntities they've always had. The only change is less responsibility. Today, if my dh and I divorced we'd both be held financially responsible for our children. It wasn't that long ago that, if I won child support and could collect, he'd be supporting us after the marriage ended. 
