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The point you are missing is that we do not deserve less than men in this country because women in a third world country have it worse than we do. We still don't have equal pay for equal work. We still don't have equal representation politically. We are making strides and we will continue to work until we achieve equality. What someone else has or doesn't have doesn't change that I deserve equality.
Obviously, you didn't read my post. I was told by a government auditor that the company I hired in with after completing engineering school hired women and minorities "when we make them". Without the equal rights movement and affirmative action, I wouldn't have had that job. Whether you believe it or not, men are at an advantage when interviewing for jobs just for being men. Discrimination against women is alive and well (as is discrimination againts minorities).
This isn't an issue of what goes on in a third world country. This is an issue of what SHOULD go on here. We are not done until we have attained equality. When it is just as likely the female candidate will get the job. When she gets paid the same as the man she works next to. You're trying to say that because we don't have it as bad as someone else we shouldn't complain but what someone else does or does not have has nothing to do with what I deserve.
What I am claiming is women do not yet have equality. It's still more likely the male candidate will get the job if it's a high paying job (true for low paying jobs as well but fewer men try to get those). She is still likely to make less than 80 cents on the dollar to her male counterpart. It's still mainly men in the political arena and mainly men running corporations. The true power still rests with men. Now is not the time to sit on our laurels. We'll lose ground if we do. We can't afford to lose ground. We haven't even made it to equality yet.
What's really sad is that we have to fight for equality. They had to make my former employer hire women and minorities, which seemed to work because now they don't seem to shy away from it anymore. But someone had to make them. There are plenty of companies out there that have to be forced to do what is right. I find that sad in a, supposedly, advanced society.
The way you keep describing "women and minorities" demonstrates my point of how today's modern feminist is trying to dupe other groups into supporting their cause. You are happy to toss race into the mix when it suits you, but you all get mad when a minority sees you for what you really are and rejects being a part of your power-grabbing agenda. I think we saw that anger last night, directed squarely at me...
Redneck, we are not talking people doing different jobs is't equal pay for EQUAL work. Not the same pay as someone else doing a different job. We're aware that different jobs have different pay scales but jobs that go to men often come with the opportuntities.
For example, in a certain food chain a friend worked for the progression is bag boy to stock boy to manager for men. For women it's cashier to cashier. Because she lacks the physical strength to stock the freezer, she never gets the opportunity to move into management. Muscle isn't needed for management.
You do hit on one of the issues and that is the channeling of women into dead end, low paying jobs. That's one thing feminsim needs to work on. Fortunately, we now have more women going to college than men. Hopefully, we're turning this one around. For us, education is the key. Men seem to have opportunties without an education but women are limited. The next step is to get women to realize that we need to make up in education what we weren't born with in muscle.
In order to be masters of our own futures, we have to be able to support ourselves.
I can't believe you could actually write this paragraph with a straight face, and still claim modern feminism is about gender equality. It's bizarre. The majority of people in this country are in dead end, low paying jobs. That's everyone, not just women. Working class warfare is happening in this country, channeling most people who used to "do" something for a living into the service economy. This is happening across gender. But what you are promoting here is that women should educate themselves and that men should not... that men should remain in the physical working class and women should rise into white collar ranks. This is what I am talking about when I say this form of feminism is only about grabbing power from men. We barely have a physcial working class anymore... lost service jobs though.
Empowerment is one thing; this paragraph is thinly veiled attempt at promoting subjugation.
While women around the world are being sold into prostitution and having their genitals mutilated, feminism will be alive and well and working on change. Just because western women have the right to vote and be paid an equal wage does not mean feminism is dead and useless.
Feminism is not going away, it is changing and evolving.
"Lets stick with the US since that's where you are rather than getting your panties in a bunch over issues you aren't contending with. "
Feminism in the west is now about transferring power, about putting women ahead of men. How else do you explain the likes of NOW trying to block shared parenting legislation? Whenever legislation comes along that would in the past been worded in pro-female verbage they were just fine, but when it's gender neutral they gripe and vilify it. An excellent example is how feminist groups are flipping out in Australia over shared parenting being enshrined in law. Sure mom can get the kids if the dad isn't fit to parent, but someone finally realized depriving kids of one of their parents as a rule of thumb isn't in their best interest. One day it'll come to the US.
"Lets stick with the US since that's where you are rather than getting your panties in a bunch over issues you aren't contending with. "
Feminism in the west is now about transferring power, about putting women ahead of men. How else do you explain the likes of NOW trying to block shared parenting legislation? Whenever legislation comes along that would in the past been worded in pro-female verbage they were just fine, but when it's gender neutral they gripe and vilify it. An excellent example is how feminist groups are flipping out in Australia over shared parenting being enshrined in law. Sure mom can get the kids if the dad isn't fit to parent, but someone finally realized depriving kids of one of their parents as a rule of thumb isn't in their best interest. One day it'll come to the US.
I thought we were meant to be sticking to the US? Make up your mind man
I thought we were meant to be sticking to the US? Make up your mind man
I am sorry if I missed it, but I went to bed early last night. (OK, I almost always go to bed early!) What was the name of that organization to whom you donate money? You said they provide grants to women so they can start businesses in poorer nations? I'd like to know the name, what nations, how they select the women... it sounds like a worthy cause, and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. There are a lot of scams out there, so it is of a serious benefit to get first hand information from a donor, as opposed to believing whatever google turns up.
I am sorry if I missed it, but I went to bed early last night. (OK, I almost always go to bed early!) What was the name of that organization to whom you donate money? You said they provide grants to women so they can start businesses in poorer nations? I'd like to know the name, what nations, how they select the women... it sounds like a worthy cause, and I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. There are a lot of scams out there, so it is of a serious benefit to get first hand information from a donor, as opposed to believing whatever google turns up.
I thought you were against feminism. Why would you be concerned about an organization that promotes female owned businesses? If it is just the "poor" you are concerned about, what are you doing to help the cause?
The federal requirement for equal allowed time off is one thing, but this still doesn't mean employers follow it the way they're supposed to. And paid leave is something completely different, which was the crux of my prior post.
Again, I don't see why you think another person's benefits package is any of your business. The men at my job receive paid paternity leave. They have the talent and the co is willing to offer whatever needed to retain the talent. The reason you do not receive similar benefits has nothing to with feminism or you being a man.
"Lets stick with the US since that's where you are rather than getting your panties in a bunch over issues you aren't contending with. "
Feminism in the west is now about transferring power, about putting women ahead of men.
Not that I agree, but why is that a problem. If it is a transference of power, then it is safe to say men have always been in power. If you didnt have a problem with that and feel feminism wasnt necessary and women had it so good with men in power, it would stand to reason what was good for the goose will be good for the gander. You should embrace western feminism and sit back and let us women take care of you.
"Lets stick with the US since that's where you are rather than getting your panties in a bunch over issues you aren't contending with. "
Feminism in the west is now about transferring power, about putting women ahead of men. How else do you explain the likes of NOW trying to block shared parenting legislation? Whenever legislation comes along that would in the past been worded in pro-female verbage they were just fine, but when it's gender neutral they gripe and vilify it. An excellent example is how feminist groups are flipping out in Australia over shared parenting being enshrined in law. Sure mom can get the kids if the dad isn't fit to parent, but someone finally realized depriving kids of one of their parents as a rule of thumb isn't in their best interest. One day it'll come to the US.
The point you are missing is that we do not deserve less than men in this country because women in a third world country have it worse than we do. We still don't have equal pay for equal work. We still don't have equal representation politically. We are making strides and we will continue to work until we achieve equality. What someone else has or doesn't have doesn't change that I deserve equality.
I never said such a thing. Stop putting words in my mouth. you have equal opportunity, what you want is equality in the outcome (that is crazy). Women can run for political office just as men can in this country, and people are free to vote for whom they like. If they do not choose the women, it is their choice. Nothing wrong or oppressive about that.
Obviously, you didn't read my post. I was told by a government auditor that the company I hired in with after completing engineering school hired women and minorities "when we make them". Without the equal rights movement and affirmative action, I wouldn't have had that job. Whether you believe it or not, men are at an advantage when interviewing for jobs just for being men. Discrimination against women is alive and well (as is discrimination againts minorities).
Sorry but I don't believe this. In this day and age discrimination is illegal and companies go out of their way to hire minorities and women for fear of appearing to be discriminating. Sometimes the women and the minorities involved are not even qualified. And if a company is crazy enough to discriminate against you, you can sue them, the government will also fine them. How is that oppression?
This isn't an issue of what goes on in a third world country. This is an issue of what SHOULD go on here. We are not done until we have attained equality. When it is just as likely the female candidate will get the job. When she gets paid the same as the man she works next to. You're trying to say that because we don't have it as bad as someone else we shouldn't complain but what someone else does or does not have has nothing to do with what I deserve.
Again! Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said that. I am only pointing to the fact that you are not being oppressed in this country because you are a female, no woman in America is. You have already attained equality in this country decades ago and then some. You want preferential treatment and that has nothing to do with equality. This is not communism, everyone is different. My male co-worker does not make the same amount of money I do, we have the same degrees and experience. Is he being oppressed too?
What I am claiming is women do not yet have equality. It's still more likely the male candidate will get the job if it's a high paying job (true for low paying jobs as well but fewer men try to get those). She is still likely to make less than 80 cents on the dollar to her male counterpart. It's still mainly men in the political arena and mainly men running corporations. The true power still rests with men. Now is not the time to sit on our laurels. We'll lose ground if we do. We can't afford to lose ground. We haven't even made it to equality yet.
Sorry but much of your 60 cents on the dollar thing is nonsense. If companies could really get away with that men would never get a job. Why would they ever hire a man when they can pay women 40% less. It just doesn't make sense.
Politicians are elected, show me the laws that stop people from voting for women and I will concede. You already have equal opportunity, what you do with it is your problem. I still don't see how women are oppressed in the USA.
What's really sad is that we have to fight for equality. They had to make my former employer hire women and minorities, which seemed to work because now they don't seem to shy away from it anymore. But someone had to make them. There are plenty of companies out there that have to be forced to do what is right. I find that sad in a, supposedly, advanced society.
Being considered a minority in this country myself (I am half black), I have never encountered discrimination in hiring in this country. It is illegal to discriminate in this country, and it has been for decades now. I don't see any companies trying to discriminate against women because they are female. It would not be a good idea to discriminate against half of the workforce and most companies aren't that stupid. You are not fighting for equality, that fight happened decades ago. All you want now is privilege.
In the end, no woman is being oppressed in this country because of their gender. You have the same rights and opportunities as any man.
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