What are the odds? (hell, myths, atheist, agnostic)
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That the Universe, with all of its matter, energy, life, physical laws just came to be all on its own. Without a creator/designer. Just look at how an atom is constructed and how it works. Its properties.
Look at DNA. Made up of said atoms. It contains a code that determines what characteristics a life form will have. And then how it figures into the process of evolution, this adaptive process by which humans have come to be. I could go on about mathematics (how it seems to describle most everything) gravity (and how it is a property of matter), time and space and so forth.
And then we build this thinking machines call computers that figure stuff out for.
So what are the odds? From the Big Bang, each event working or not. Having a 1000 events all work in a row. A million.
So obviously the universe is here as are we. That proves nothing.
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on it own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
That the Universe, with all of its matter, energy, life, physical laws just came to be all on its own. Without a creator/designer. Just look at how an atom is constructed and how it works. Its properties.
Look at DNA. Made up of said atoms. It contains a code that determines what characteristics a life form will have. And then how it figures into the process of evolution, this adaptive process by which humans have come to be. I could go on about mathematics (how it seems to describle most everything) gravity (and how it is a property of matter), time and space and so forth.
And then we build this thinking machines call computers that figure stuff out for.
So what are the odds? From the Big Bang, each event working or not. Having a 1000 events all work in a row. A million.
So obviously the universe is here as are we. That proves nothing.
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on it own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just ame to be?
Well, regardless of what you think of the rest of my beliefs, we're together on this matter.
That the Universe, with all of its matter, energy, life, physical laws just came to be all on its own. Without a creator/designer. Just look at how an atom is constructed and how it works. Its properties.
Look at DNA. Made up of said atoms. It contains a code that determines what characteristics a life form will have. And then how it figures into the process of evolution, this adaptive process by which humans have come to be. I could go on about mathematics (how it seems to describle most everything) gravity (and how it is a property of matter), time and space and so forth.
And then we build this thinking machines call computers that figure stuff out for.
So what are the odds? From the Big Bang, each event working or not. Having a 1000 events all work in a row. A million.
So obviously the universe is here as are we. That proves nothing.
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on it own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
In my opinion the odds of a naturally occurring universe are immensely better than some imaginary deity creating it all.
Humans exist on one tiny planet out of a possible trillions of planets, but some have an ego that is larger than the entire universe...Humans are not any more special than any other creature....
Evidence...
1 The universe is expanding.
2 The second line of evidence is the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
3 The theory predicts that certain amounts of hydrogen, helium, and other elements should be seen. Observations have shown almost exactly the amounts that are predicted.
4 The Big Bang theory is the only one that comprehensively lays down a framework for the eventual evolution of the universe as we observe it today.
In my opinion the odds of a naturally occurring universe are immensely better than some imaginary deity creating it all.
I would totally agree with you that it's highly unlikely that something imaginary created anything. I don't think an imaginary deity is what Mr5150 had in mind, though.
Quote:
Humans exist on one tiny planet out of a possible trillions of planets, but some have an ego that is larger than the entire universe...Humans are not any more special than any other creature....
Really? I've always believed that there are many planets populated with humans (and animals) -- even if not in our solar system.
Quote:
Evidence...
1 The universe is expanding.
2 The second line of evidence is the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
3 The theory predicts that certain amounts of hydrogen, helium, and other elements should be seen. Observations have shown almost exactly the amounts that are predicted.
4 The Big Bang theory is the only one that comprehensively lays down a framework for the eventual evolution of the universe as we observe it today.
Interesting. Was this supposed to prove that God is imaginary? I see every one of your points as valid, but leading to an entirely different conclusion than you came to.
In my opinion the odds of a naturally occurring universe are immensely better than some imaginary deity creating it all.
Humans exist on one tiny planet out of a possible trillions of planets, but some have an ego that is larger than the entire universe...Humans are not any more special than any other creature....
Evidence...
1 The universe is expanding.
2 The second line of evidence is the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
3 The theory predicts that certain amounts of hydrogen, helium, and other elements should be seen. Observations have shown almost exactly the amounts that are predicted.
4 The Big Bang theory is the only one that comprehensively lays down a framework for the eventual evolution of the universe as we observe it today.
The evidence is what? That the Universe is doing stuff. Agreed. The thoery predicts...yes it predicts! Once again we find order, patterns predictable stuff. Not exactly the stuff of chance. Chance tends to produce randon results. Stuff that's hard to predict.
I like the Big Bang. Took a course in Astrophysics in college. I was taught that the first effect of the BB was to produce what is basically light-quarks, photons and energy.
Take a gander (I love 19th century idioms) at Genises 1:1:3 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void*, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over thesurface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be lightâ€; and there was light. (*meaning it did not yet exist)
Now how in the heck did a bunch of "Bronze age goat hearders" figure out that the first thing produced by the BB was Light???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
I would totally agree with you that it's highly unlikely that something imaginary created anything. I don't think an imaginary deity is what Mr5150 had in mind, though.
Interesting. Was this supposed to prove that God is imaginary? I see every one of your points as valid, but leading to an entirely different conclusion than you came to.
Yes, and as you mentioned despite our differences in doctrince, we both believe in a Creator and His son.
What are the odds that the universe was created by the primitive tribal god of iron/bronze age desert goat herders?
What are the odds that an intellect capable of such a creation would have any connection with the absurd train wreck of mediocrity that is the Bible?
Answer: not a snowball's chance in hell
Nice pat (evasive) answer. Now, how-bout you address the OP.
Answer me this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on its own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
No physical evidence for chance orgins. I think the odds for God versus nontheist origins about equal for the sake of debate. 50-50.
There may be life in the universe on other worlds, but there is no possibility of humans populating any planet but this one. Life elsewhere would be far different from life here.
Although I do believe that all gods have been invented by humans and as such are imaginary. The evidence that convinces me of that is this....If there truly were a god, there would be just one, not the thousands who have with the passage of time are now regarded, even by you as myths...
I was not attempting to prove anything other than that there are valid alternatives with evidence to believers statement that God dun it, for which by the way there is no evidence at all.
What are the odds that the universe was created by the primitive tribal god of iron/bronze age desert goat herders?
What are the odds that an intellect capable of such a creation would have any connection with the absurd train wreck of mediocrity that is the Bible?
Answer: not a snowball's chance in hell
I am an agnostic because I accept the possibility that there could be an intelligent, rational mind behind the creation of the universe, although I believe that such a mind, if it exists, has no concern with earth or humanity.
However, I am an atheist because I see no real evidence supporting the existence of such a mind, so I lack belief in it, along with all other gods.
I am a strong atheist as to the Abrahamic god . . . he absolutely does not exist.
There may be life in the universe on other worlds, but there is no possibility of humans populating any planet but this one. Life elsewhere would be far different from life here.
Although I do believe that all gods have been invented by humans and as such are imaginary. The evidence that convinces me of that is this....If there truly were a god, there would be just one, not the thousands who have with the passage of time are now regarded, even by you as myths...
I was not attempting to prove anything other than that there are valid alternatives with evidence to believers statement that God dun it, for which by the way there is no evidence at all.
The real question (I can see I will have to do this more than once) is:
Answer me this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
To me the odds of the Universe coming to be (and humans existing) by chance or simply on its own are...astronomical! Can anyone explain how the universe just came to be? On its own. No outside help.
Shall we address the question of Origins rather than alien life (of which we have no evidence). If I was interest in aliens the OP would have said as much.
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I don't think an imaginary deity is what Mr5150 had in mind, though. 
