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I'm Jewish and I don't think a cross belongs at the site and this nation was founded on separation of church and and state. There are many faiths traditions among those who died on 9/11.
Yes not only can I sit on the fence I actually jumped over the fence and left Jesus and Christianity behind.......
This is absolutely correct. However, I do not understand what that has to do with the piece of WTC steel known as the "Ground Zero (hate that term) cross". It has zero/zippo/nada to do with the victims who died on 9/11.
The significance of this piece of metal is that when it was pulled out of the pile, SOME of the construction workers that were Christian took it as a sign of hope in their faith. Not everyone on the pile was a Christian by a long shot, and I'm sure some just rolled their eyes and went back to scraping skin off steel and separating rotting human flesh from rotting restaurant meat. No one on the pile was required to participate in any veneration of that piece of steel. It was just something that meant something spiritual to a subset of people working on that site. To most people, it is two pieces of somewhat symmetrical steel connected at right angles. I am Christian and a survivor of the WTC attacks, and it means something to me simply because it's a piece of one of the buildings, not because of its shape. As a matter of fact, there's a piece of steel from the northwest corner on display in the NY State Museum at Albany that means more to me because that's the area where I exited the building on that day.
It is your prerogative to think Christians are all just silly geese or roll your eyes over the religious beliefs of those construction workers. The fact remains that this museum is being built specifically to tell the story of what happened on 9/11 and in the aftermath. Those construction workers are part of that story, and so are the pieces of steel, including the cross-shaped one, and the emergency vehicles, and the survivor's staircase, and all of the other artifacts that will be on display in that museum. The fact that this one piece of steel happened to be pulled out by the crane in the shape of what some perceive as a religious symbol should not be a reason for its exclusion.
Please list a better standard of morals and ethics than what Christ taught to man . Thank you.
Jesus is said to have openly endorsed all of the atrocities in the Old Testament, from rape to slavery to the murdering of infant children. I think I'd take Adolph Hitler over Jesus.
Oh, and some of Jesus' teachings were plagiarized from a 1st-century-BC Jewish philosopher named Hillel the Elder.
As for the U.S. being founded on Christian ideals: You obviously know nothing about secular law or secular government in the various societies of Western culture over the thousands of years leading up to the formation of the U.S. Furthermore, you've obviously never done a Google search on the religious beliefs of the founding fathers.
Finally, how about you keep your crosses and associated religious relics in religious places, for religious people. Many of us do not endorse your worship of warmongering, baby-killing, pestilential, vindictive, petty, scientifically-illiterate Yahweh of the Bible, or his milksop alter-ego, whose written legend probably no more resembles his actual life than the modern legend of Santa Claus resembles the life of the Scandinavian Saint Nicholas.
You Christians had your chance at mixing government and religion.
This is absolutely correct. However, I do not understand what that has to do with the piece of WTC steel known as the "Ground Zero (hate that term) cross". It has zero/zippo/nada to do with the victims who died on 9/11.
The significance of this piece of metal is that when it was pulled out of the pile, SOME of the construction workers that were Christian took it as a sign of hope in their faith. Not everyone on the pile was a Christian by a long shot, and I'm sure some just rolled their eyes and went back to scraping skin off steel and separating rotting human flesh from rotting restaurant meat. No one on the pile was required to participate in any veneration of that piece of steel. It was just something that meant something spiritual to a subset of people working on that site. To most people, it is two pieces of somewhat symmetrical steel connected at right angles. I am Christian and a survivor of the WTC attacks, and it means something to me simply because it's a piece of one of the buildings, not because of its shape. As a matter of fact, there's a pvyiece of steel from the northwest corner on display in the NY State Museum at Albany that means more to me because that's the area where I exited the building on that day.
It is your prerogative to think Christians are all just silly geese or roll your eyes over the religious beliefs of those construction workers. The fact remains that this museum is being built specifically to tell the story of what happened on 9/11 and in the aftermath. Those construction workers are part of that story, and so are the pieces of steel, including the cross-shaped one, and the emergency vehicles, and the survivor's staircase, and all of the other artifacts that will be on display in that museum.
Sounds okay to me; Some construction workers saw hope in what they perceived as a a Christian symbol in the wreckage.
So put it in a Christian place, where they can go to view it.
Because many of the rest of us in this beloved secular nation of ours are NOT Christian.
Sounds okay to me; Some construction workers saw hope in what they perceived as a a Christian symbol in the wreckage.
So put it in a Christian place, where they can go to view it.
Because many of the rest of us in this beloved secular nation of ours are NOT Christian.
Personally, I think they should have left it outside St. Peter's Church, where it stood for the past few years. I still don't understand why non-Christians would even care that this thing will be part of the museum. I can see if it was to be erected as part of the actual Memorial to the victims of 9/11--then there would be a case for its removal.
But, if we follow your train of thought, perhaps we'd better go through all of our museums and remove all of the religious art or symbolism that are part of the collections and make a law that they can only be displayed in religious settings.
Finally, how about you keep your crosses and associated religious relics in religious places, for religious people. Many of us do not endorse your worship of warmongering, baby-killing, pestilential, vindictive, petty, scientifically-illiterate Yahweh of the Bible, or his milksop alter-ego, whose written legend probably no more resembles his actual life than the modern legend of Santa Claus resembles the life of the Scandinavian Saint Nicholas.
You sound REALLY angry. Are you OK? I mean, I don't have to agree with you to respect that you have your own opinion. But have you been personally attacked? I'm wondering b/c, like I said, your posts here seem well, angry.
Except that most of your Jesus' teaching were being taught by the Buddha 500 years earlier.
But Buddha never claimed to be from Heaven, the Creator, nor taught under the premise of being a person of ultimate authority . When Buddha was on his deathbed , his followers were gathered around waiting for some final message on the meaning to life...only for Buddha to say 'I dont know' . Christ said he was/is the way , the truth, and the life.
Still waiting for a better set of moral/ethical teachings than Jesus' (assuming morals and ethics are something to be grasped in a secular culture ... which they arent) .
Jesus is said to have openly endorsed all of the atrocities in the Old Testament, from rape to slavery to the murdering of infant children. I think I'd take Adolph Hitler over Jesus.
Oh, and some of Jesus' teachings were plagiarized from a 1st-century-BC Jewish philosopher named Hillel the Elder.
As for the U.S. being founded on Christian ideals: You obviously know nothing about secular law or secular government in the various societies of Western culture over the thousands of years leading up to the formation of the U.S. Furthermore, you've obviously never done a Google search on the religious beliefs of the founding fathers.
Finally, how about you keep your crosses and associated religious relics in religious places, for religious people. Many of us do not endorse your worship of warmongering, baby-killing, pestilential, vindictive, petty, scientifically-illiterate Yahweh of the Bible, or his milksop alter-ego, whose written legend probably no more resembles his actual life than the modern legend of Santa Claus resembles the life of the Scandinavian Saint Nicholas.
You Christians had your chance at mixing government and religion.
I have researched our Founding Fathers which is why i keep this in my computers favorites list : http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...es.asp?id=8755 . Dont buy into atheist myths because they are fabricated for a reason.
This will clear up your misunderstanding on Christian 'atrocities' which werent done by devoted Followers of Christ at all ; further youll see a comparison of terrible things done in the 'name' (only) of God versus atrocities performed in the very IDEOLOGY of atheism : http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...trocities.html .
No, the Dark Ages are with us today vis-a-vis atheistic man-fabricated 'morals/ethics' to which you surely dont want to be on the recieving end of.
But Buddha never claimed to be from Heaven, the Creator, nor taught under the premise of being a person of ultimate authority . When Buddha was on his deathbed , his followers were gathered around waiting for some final message on the meaning to life...only for Buddha to say 'I dont know' . Christ said he was/is the way , the truth, and the life.
You really do love to twist things don't you? We were talking about the "teachings" of the Jesus character, not what the Buddha claimed or didn't claim to be. YOU introduced it when you said:
".....we ALL agree that his teachings on morality and ethics were second to none..."
Well many of those teachings about morlity and ethics were spoken by the Buddha 500 years before your Jesus. Christianity stole them.
But Buddha never claimed to be from Heaven, the Creator, nor taught under the premise of being a person of ultimate authority . When Buddha was on his deathbed , his followers were gathered around waiting for some final message on the meaning to life...only for Buddha to say 'I dont know' . Christ said he was/is the way , the truth, and the life.
Still waiting for a better set of moral/ethical teachings than Jesus' (assuming morals and ethics are something to be grasped in a secular culture ... which they arent) .
And so it must be true right?.......
Guess what 007.5....... I am the way, the truth, and the life, bow down to your king. { I said I am, so I must be right?} Prove I'm not.
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