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So explain. How or what tells you that an action is wrong? I keep asking you that. Maybe you're just unable to comprehend the question. Maybe you don't want to.
::Sigh::What obliviousness . . . What God has "written in our hearts" in agape love tells us what is right and wrong, Vizio . . . NOT some ancient words "written in ink" by our ignorant primitive ancestors!! Morality does NOT depend on the whim and caprice of God. It is objective and absolute based on agape love because God IS agape love . . . NOT some capricious dictator. There is only one morality and it is always the same regardless who does it (even God), period. Only our ignorant ancestors thought otherwise and claimed God did immoral things. That is the veil of ignorance over reading the OT that Christ came to lift!!! You and those like you retain that veil of ignorance and pervert the Gospel of Christ by excusing and rationalizing Evil as Good because you believe somehow God was involved. It is a travesty of human perversity and double-mindedness. Morality is NOT flexible . . . not even God can alter what is immoral and make it moral.
I have no reason to suggest my subjective opinion of morality is above anyone else's. Nor am I making such a claim.
If you using your subjective opinion to pick and choose from the Bible isn't an issue, why would you question the reasons behind anyone else doing the same from various other sources?
And again, the fact that all people seem to do this is even more evidence that morality is subjective.
The same thing that tells YOU that ... unless you're some kind of sociopath, as I said; unless you're just faking your humanity and blindly following the dictates of your religion.
Otherwise, good ol' fashioned empathy tells me that. Again, as I've stated before, there ARE certain universals which exist inside the parameters of being a normal human being.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Yah...you really do need to make the argument. To just assume something is called "begging the question". It's a logical fallacy.
No ... I don't. The only reason why there is any question over God's actions in the OT being immoral is because it was God. If any mortal had committed those same actions for the same reasons, that person would be considered the biggest monster in all of human history.
You would be hard pressed indeed to find anyone who would regard the actions in the OT as moral, good, and righteous if you took God out of the equation. Saying I have to somehow prove those actions are immoral is just a heaping helping of equivocation.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
OK. If you believe that, great. But I'm still waiting for you to come up with the question of why something is immoral?
More equivocation.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
I've never suggested that we ONLY base our legal system off of the Biblical commands.
Yes, that is EXACTLY what you are suggesting whether you realize it or not. According to you, the only justified morality comes from God. We only know what comes from God by studying the Bible. Anything else, again according to you, cannot be justified. Unless, of course, you can answer your own questions with secular ideas. No religion.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
But again...the fact remains that just because you consider something wrong....no one else is required to agree with you.
You're right, they don't have to agree with me. But if enough do, then it has the potential to become a moral rule. There are plenty of things some people find immoral that I find to be silly - like profanity. Then again, when it comes to business practices, there's a list a mile long that I find immoral that others do not.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Actually, we are not required to adhere to 3000 year old laws. Those laws were given to a specific set o people at a specific time. I'm not one of them.
Your version of morality has to be legitimized and accredited by your God - and that happens within the pages of a 3,000 year-old book with laws that are equally that old. Your moral view on homosexuality is just one case in point. Fornication ... yet another case in point.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
That's a different thread. I'd be happy to explain the cosmological argument for you. But it's not a part of this thread.
The cosmological argument has been thoroughly debunked as merely the "God of the Gaps" argument. We don't know yet, therefore, God.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Glad you FINALLY agree that there is such a thing as objective morality. You think it just got there by random happenstance...but I believe God programmed it that way.
No.
Murder is just a subset of killing - and prohibitions on killing are not absolute. But even assuming this is objective morality, there is no reason whatsoever to believe God "programmed" it that way. I understand that believers are wont to fill every crack and crevice with their gods and their dogma, but there simply is no reason to assume that any god is responsible - and there is even less reason to believe it was your specific deity.
If you using your subjective opinion to pick and choose from the Bible isn't an issue, why would you question the reasons behind anyone else doing the same from various other sources?
I'm not picking and choosing. I'm certainly not looking at a list of commandments and deciding I just don't like one of them. You really need to understand the idea of context. This has been a recurring issue with you and others on this very thread, much less this board. I've seen no attempt at all in understanding it. It tells me that you just don't want to, and that it must be your intent to just talk past me.
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And again, the fact that all people seem to do this is even more evidence that morality is subjective.
Then I guess your position is that you cannot possibly tell anyone that they're wrong. I guess that includes the murderer, the rapist, the petty thief, etc.
Then I guess your position is that you cannot possibly tell anyone that they're wrong. I guess that includes the murderer, the rapist, the petty thief, etc.
You guess wrong.
Again.
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