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Because humans allowed the Holocaust to happen.
And we all have a responsibility to try to understand how it happened, why people allowed it to happen, clearly see the attitudes and behaviors that led up to it, learn from it so it does not happen again.
they have to blame somebody, or the lack of somebody.
they have to blame somebody, or the lack of somebody.
It has happened again and will happen again.
Nobody cares, ignorance/
spot on, Arach, you highlight a very very important element.
And that is do we blame others, or do we take responsibility. Both individually (as a single human being) and also collectively (as a people, a town, a nation) do we blame others? Or do we take responsibility for what is going on around us, and what is going on within us (our thought, speech, action, feelings, attitudes, beliefs).
Hate, greed, turning a blind eye, indifference, arrogance, superiority, defending and justifying those attitudes, allowed it to happen.
Blaming God for the Holocaust is a refusal to take responsibility for it as humans.
Because humans allowed the Holocaust to happen.
And we all have a responsibility to try to understand how it happened, why people allowed it to happen, clearly see the attitudes and behaviors that led up to it, learn from it so it does not happen again.
Yeah, I too think it's important that it doesn't happen again.
Now how is this analogous to God allowing it to happen?
So for you, what have you learned from the Holocaust, and would want to pass on to your children about how people allowed it, how to prevent it in the future, and the attitudes that people used to justify both the atrocities themselves and their willingness to justify and condone it?
It isn't rocket science. Hatred and otherizing produced the Holocaust; love and tolerance will avoid another. One of the major ways that people treat each other badly is to be irrational, tribal, self absorbed and suspicious. One of the major enablers of irrationality, tribalism, selfishness and suspicion, is religious faith.
My children figured this out for themselves; they had to because I was still religious when I was raising them. If I had it to do over again I would have saved them some time there.
The second factor after religious faith in my view is related ... people are incurious and lazy by and large. They more often than not don't vote, and don't vote in a substantively informed way when they do, for example. When they take up positions within a charity or HOA board or community organization they often do so to be able to say they did it, and to do the minimum amount of thinking or working while serving -- or to have the power trip that goes with it. Rare and refreshing are people who want to actually be effective, transparent, rigorous and inclusive in such positions, who want to stretch themselves and help others do the same.
So the other thing I had a major role to instill in my children was to care deeply, work diligently, and don't bother to do things you don't plan to give your all to. I am proud of them in that regard. It makes them part of the solution in this world rather than part of the problem.
How? Unless you show your bleep up, no Law can apply to destroy you.
You're asking how an omnimax deity could stop evil...really?
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
What are they?
Fear, impotence, lack of resources, lack of power, apathy...to name a few....but it's not about why humans didn't stop it. It's about why and omnimax deity didn't stop it. That is what you are avoiding...and you are avoiding it for one very good reason. That reason is that the omnimax deity knew it would happen and must have planned it to happen. It was what the deity wanted. There is no other logical reason for the deity allowing it to happen.
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Tell us your view on why people allowed it to happen.
See above.
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Still waiting for your answer on how you would help others. Thus far all you are doing is defending why it is OK to NOT help others.
The same way as I have helped others all my adult life. If you want to know how then PM me.
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Because many people did what they could as ordinary people to alleviate suffering: hid someone in their house, smuggled food into camps, smuggled children out of the country, got prisoners moved to easier camps, or put on a less strenuous work detail, declined to turn in a neighbor, Schindler they made a movie about the lives he saved, the list goes on an on. Ordinary people doing what they could.
Of course as is always the case in such matters but it was a 'drop in the ocean' and nothing to what an omnimax deity could have done in a blink of an eye. You constant and persistent attempts to equate humans with omnimax deities just isn't working.
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Ordinary people, just like you. What makes them react differently in the very same situation? Which are you? Which attitudes do you defend and justify? In your heart of hearts what makes you squeamish about the discussion? You appear to be defending and justifying humans NOT doing anything to alleviate suffering.
I'm not at all squeamish about the discussion. The discussion is about why an omnimax deity did not stop the holocaust not about why humans didn't. I would point out that it's you that is avoiding that discussion, not me.
Last edited by mensaguy; 11-18-2016 at 05:22 AM..
Reason: edited quote
. The discussion is about why an omnimax deity did not stop the holocaust not about why humans didn't.
A person who criticizes something while denying that it exists is talking out of both sides of their mouth. A person who claims something does not exist, by definition has no knowledge of it, no understanding of it, no experience of it, no relationship with it, no perception of it, and therefore no credibility on it. They have removed themselves from the discussion. They have nothing to offer, they have nothing to contribute.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 11-16-2016 at 11:30 PM..
A person who criticizes something while denying that it exists is talking out of both sides of their mouth. And has no credibility on the topic. A person who claims something does not exist, by definition has no knowledge of it, no understanding of it, no experience of it, no perception of it. And therefore has nothing to offer.
Oh come now. Don't put yourself down like that. You do make some good points...occasionally. Believe in yourself.
So then...are you going to address the topic? Why did GOD allow the holocaust?
...or as mordant put it:
"What makes YOU squeamish about explaining why a Being with no limitations chooses to 'turn a blind eye" to human suffering?"
How thick does someone have to be to NOT understand that WE have DOMINION on earth, PERIOD!!!
...about as thick as people that subscribe to idiotic beliefs in gods.
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