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As a Lutheran, I believe we are saved through God's grace and only God's grace. Works and faith mean nothing without God's grace. It's the big picture I guess...
God's gift to all is Grace and believe you can come to faith thru mere grace. Still the most important element of Christianity is the Empty Tomb, because of this fact Resurrection is now obtainable for all the faithful. Im Catholic, but do go to Lutheran church ELCA with spouse at times, as well as Catholic churches[both Roman & independent ones] Have understanding of both, but believe being Christian supecedes being denominations. The denominations are traditional ways of worship.
God's gift to all is Grace and believe you can come to faith thru mere grace. Still the most important element of Christianity is the Empty Tomb, because of this fact Resurrection is now obtainable for all the faithful. Im Catholic, but do go to Lutheran church ELCA with spouse at times, as well as Catholic churches[both Roman & independent ones] Have understanding of both, but believe being Christian supecedes being denominations. The denominations are traditional ways of worship.
"mere Grace"?
I don't find this to be a chicken and the egg scenario.
Without God's grace salvation is impossible...everything means nothing. You do the other things (ie. have faith, repent, etc) to earn God's grace.
Faith without works is just mere theory. Imo Jesus is a man of action and not a philosopher.
People who act need to have faith anyway, since people without faith mostly become disillusioned and deeply depressed.
People even with religion are either depressed or can still be backstabbing A**hole's I work with a bunch of them.
Don't subscribe to a specific religion. I have explored all kinds of religions though.
What i shared is my own personal principle, which I believe applies to every other aspect of life.
Me too, I was a catholic but now I'm annoyed with all the priest who sexually molested little children then sent to other parishes instead reported or given psyhological help!
I'm a Jew. I believe what kind of a person you are, if you follow the commandments(don't murder,don't steal etc) then I believe you will have a place in heaven. I certainly DO NOT believe that you have to believe in a certain person but yet can commit whatever kind of crimes you want or be whatever kind of terrible person you want to but yet simply because you happen to believe in that one thing you are saved. Judaism just doesn't work that way and it to me isn't even reasonable to think that way.
Very true...Alot of my friends are Christians say one thing then do another.
Reading through this thread I could sense both proponents may be right. Believers who walked with God before Jesus' ministry and the Christians thereafter are saved by faith. We are told in Ephesians 2:8-9 it is a free gift and not by works, lest one be boastful about it.
At the end of the Great Tribulation God's people all throughout history will be gathered by the angels in the "gathering of the saints" (1st Resurrection or Raptured if alive). They will all rise up to the sky to meet JC... and they will be given glorified ETERNAL bodies. After 10 days they will come down with JC to destroy the AC's armies in the Battle of Armageddon. Victorious they will establish God's Kingdom on earth and rule the surviving humans for 1000 years.
Now that God's people already have eternal life... they will no longer be in the 2nd/final resurrection to be judged by God in the Great White Throne Judgment. Their salvation is the free gift already given to them before their millennial rule on earth.
Therefore I believe it is the non-believers who will be judged by their works! Not all of them are wicked... majority of non-believers did and do live a righteous life... only misled by Satan into rejecting God or totally non-belief in anything. In the end they will be resurrected in the Great White Throne Judgment and separated like sheep from the goats and given their fate. (Dan 12:2).
In Rev 21:8, the verse is very specific on who will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to die a second death... the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars. I would think not all atheists fall into these categories... therefore they will be judged according to their works.
Your understanding is not bad. What you say has truth to it. However, the "Rapture" is not that people fly up to heaven with Jesus Christ but rather are caught up in His return resulting in a New Age, one where Christ has shown mankind the Way. For Christ said; I am the Way. And when the people of this world recognize that God has fulfilled His promise, than it will be by these righteous people who will do away with hate, suppression,
starvation and the willful destruction of this planet by uncaring people. The world will not end, but a New Beginning comes.
Me too, I was a catholic but now I'm annoyed with all the priest who sexually molested little children then sent to other parishes instead reported or given psyhological help!
Would that not be a sign for the Second Coming of Christ? To raise up the dead in his Church, to bring Justice, to unite all churches as one? I find what is going on in Iran interesting. Chanting "God is Great" from the roof tops. The world is in a mess and order needs to be restored, so that the New Advent flourishes for man to live.
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Imo Jesus is a man of action and not a philosopher.
