Atheism in 11 easy steps (Holy Spirit, Christianity, God, Christians)
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You keep saying this, but the fact is, YOU have nothing but YOUR opinion. You use your opinion on what an ancient book says, as if it is more than YOUR opinion. It isn't.
I have God's Word. That's more than my opinion.
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The only "morality" needed, is do no harm. This is far better than your OPINION on what you BELIEVE your God wants. You seem to be stuck on this whole, "who defined this" thing. Well, I know who defined it for you.... Bronze Age goat herders and people who thought the world was flat.
Great. You don't want to do no harm. But if another atheist WANTS to do harm...you have NOTHING to say about THEIR opinion. Good for you!
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Your "gold standard" is nothing but YOUR opinion on what a book that has been translated innumerable times, says. That is not a "gold standard", and in fact, your own religion can't even agree on morals from your book.
Come on, Viz. You're better than that. It IS your subjective personal opinion of what God's word means. It has no more standing than my opinion or anyone else's. You speak of "gold standards" while not actually possessing one. And in fact that's a weak analogy. There's a very credible argument that the gold standard was an illusory concept whose inflexibility and unresponsiveness actually led us right into the Great Depression. Virtually no one with any credibility thinks returning to it would be anything but a disaster. Which is to say, pretty much everyone but Ted Cruz. So maybe you want to pick another label for your idea there.
You seem to be under the impression that your OPINION that it is God's word is the same thing as it actually BEING God's word. Until that is proven, it is your OPINION, whether you like it or not.
So, prove to us it is indeed God's word, and I will admit it is not your opinion. What, you can't do that? Oh that's right, because it is your OPINION!
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Great. You don't want to do no harm. But if another atheist WANTS to do harm...you have NOTHING to say about THEIR opinion. Good for you!
I don't want to do no harm? What?
I don't want to do harm, and neither does anyone with any empathy or respect for others. I know this is a foreign concept for the religious, since your main agenda is tearing others down and denying rights (etc etc), but most people do not want to do harm to others.
In fact, I would have something to say about it. They would be doing harm to others, which would be going against the "gold standard". Do no harm is not an opinion, it is something that most civilized societies aim for... They never get there, but the aim for it! Are you saying that this is not a good thing to strive for?
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Still waiting...
Well, I hate to break it to you, but you have missed the bus Viz. It passed you by a long time ago, obviously. You have been thoroughly beaten by a whole bunch of people on here about this topic, yet you come right back saying the same ignorant stuff that has already been shown false.... Pathetic, Viz. Pathetic. Some people learn from mistakes, but you just ignore them and then make them again. Is this some kind of religious thing? It seems you all ignore reality.
Ever wonder where people "learn" to become atheists?
Look no further than the christian bible. Seems there are 11 verses that are so compelling, that many who have actually READ the bible, see atheism as a viable non'belief.
Genesis 19:8
As a father of three daughters myself, I cannot imagine offering my daughters to get raped so that I could protect the strangers under my roof.
Exodus 21:20-21
This was a favorite verse of slave-owners during the period of slavery in our country. In fact, all of Exodus 21 talks about the rules for treating slaves.
Leviticus 25:44-45
This is another verse about slaves, but this one includes the children. According to God, it is okay to buy and sell children. So apparently, everybody today who is trying to raise awareness about the human trafficking of children just needs to shut up. Apparently, God’s in favor of it.
1 Peter 2:18
So if you are a slave, and your master beats you harshly, you should just accept it. After all, fear of your master is a good thing.
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
So if a woman has pre-marital sex, she should be stoned. Other texts lay guilt on the man as well, but the guilty male gets less attention than the guilty female.
Deuteronomy 23:1
So if your penis is cut off or your balls are crushed, God does not accept your worship. God only accepts worship from people whose genitals are in good condition (minus the foreskin of course … that sort of mutilation is required by God).
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
So two men are fighting and a woman steps in to defend her man, and ends up grabbing the genitals of her husband’s opponent. Rather than discipline the men for fighting in the first place, the proper response in this case is to cut off the woman’s hand.
Leviticus 21:18-19
To approach God, you apparently had to be a perfect male specimen, with a working penis. Everybody else could not approach Him.
Leviticus 20:9
How is this even remotely justified? I don’t care if a kid cursed his parents with the worst curses ever uttered, does he deserve to get stoned to death for it?
2 Kings 2:23-24
Apparently, even though God doesn’t want people to worship him who are blind in one eye, or have a limb too long, or have eczema, He is a big fan of bald men!
Psalm 137:9
Happy? The word here could also be translated as “blessed.”
But try to picture the scene. Was this like baby piñata day?
Welcome to church, and enjoy your god-given blessings.
Nah you don't even need (or you shouldn't have to) to go into all that actually. The path to non religion can be summed up in one sentence: god set people up for punishment by creating flawed/"sinful" people
Personally the thing I also don't get about Christianity is Jesus is the son of God but if you look at other verses Jesus is God.
Huh? So this is like Futurama where Fry goes back in time and he is his own grandpa.
The funny thing is, to have any outrage at any of that (commanded by God or not), you must presuppose the concept of morality. There is no such thing as morality when it comes to atheism, as the only thing you have is your opinion of what you like or dislike. There is no such thing as morality in the natural world -- it is only based on needs and survival.
Just this morning I was listening to Michael Shuemer (sp) and Neil Degrasse Tyson discussing that and how that was questioned during the Age of Enlightenment. Men like Adam Smith and Kant put it this way, can you determine if something is wrong without it being written in Scripture. Personally I think we can if it is based on logic. Are there reasons other than it is in the Bible to not marry or have sex with children, to not abuse animals, to drive on the correct side of the road , to not murder or to not store wastes next to water bodies?
This is one of my biggest beefs with some Christians , the claim that if you do not believe in a god you have no way of being a moral person. As Christians do not follow some of the morals from the OT then the logical conclusion is that people like you should think that Christians are the only creatures on this planet that possibly can be moral. I find that an insult to the majority of humans that live or have lived on Earth and any animal society that has its one morals. For me morals does not come solely from what my opinion is and it has been explained to you over and over that morals are not just opinions. That you think I am an immoral or amoral person because I do not believe in any gods is a reflection of your inability to understand people like me rather than a reflection of any lack of morals of mine.
Even wolf packs have rules that limit the harm done to others within the pack as do chimps, gorillas and other intelligent social animals. A dog rolls on its back in a dog fight and most dogs will stop the fight rather than kill it while it is an easy opportunity. That is one of the reasons that dogs for dog fights have to be trained, trained to go for the kill rather than the normal action of accepting victory.
I would put my morality against some of the Christians on this forum any day of the week. Or my father's against them or so on. I don't need a book in order to treat all women with respect for example and to treat them as equals. I am certainly not saying that Christians are not moral either but I do believe that their morality comes from the same place as mine, through the evolutionary process of our brains and through what we observed in our society.
If you can prove that there is no morality without God please do, but not some presuppistionals nonsense like Sy Ten B whatever his name is.
Just this morning I was listening to Michael Shuemer (sp) and Neil Degrasse Tyson discussing that and how that was questioned during the Age of Enlightenment. Men like Adam Smith and Kant put it this way, can you determine if something is wrong without it being written in Scripture. Personally I think we can if it is based on logic. Are there reasons other than it is in the Bible to not marry or have sex with children, to not abuse animals, to drive on the correct side of the road , to not murder or to not store wastes next to water bodies?
This is one of my biggest beefs with some Christians , the claim that if you do not believe in a god you have no way of being a moral person. As Christians do not follow some of the morals from the OT then the logical conclusion is that people like you should think that Christians are the only creatures on this planet that possibly can be moral. I find that an insult to the majority of humans that live or have lived on Earth and any animal society that has its one morals. For me morals does not come solely from what my opinion is and it has been explained to you over and over that morals are not just opinions. That you think I am an immoral or amoral person because I do not believe in any gods is a reflection of your inability to understand people like me rather than a reflection of any lack of morals of mine.
Even wolf packs have rules that limit the harm done to others within the pack as do chimps, gorillas and other intelligent social animals. A dog rolls on its back in a dog fight and most dogs will stop the fight rather than kill it while it is an easy opportunity. That is one of the reasons that dogs for dog fights have to be trained, trained to go for the kill rather than the normal action of accepting victory.
I would put my morality against some of the Christians on this forum any day of the week. Or my father's against them or so on. I don't need a book in order to treat all women with respect for example and to treat them as equals. I am certainly not saying that Christians are not moral either but I do believe that their morality comes from the same place as mine, through the evolutionary process of our brains and through what we observed in our society.
If you can prove that there is no morality without God please do, but not some presuppistionals nonsense like Sy Ten B whatever his name is.
Yeah, for many people being non religious you are more likely to have better morals than those who are religious. Many religious just do the right thing because they are afraid of "daddy" smiting them. Our groups (atheists, agnostic theists etc.) generally do it just because it is the right thing to do.
And God has said what he thinks of them. I'm sorry if that bothers you.
Only if "His word" is actually His word.
This is what is known as circular reasoning.
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