Why I Lost My Christian Faith (attend, grace, church, atheist)
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Wrong. Everything we know about our Reality that has been established by science is NOT evidence for God; it is evidence for material/nature/reality without any real evidence for an Intelligence behind it.
As long as you continue to think that life and intellligence just magically appeared by "emergence" or "self-organization" or other euphemisms for magical observations, it is YOU who is relying on magical, irrational thinking.
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Slapping the 'God' label on it through the trick of finding a common characteristic in 'our creation' is a hoary old ploy that you have been peddling for a decade or more, and it is an insult to us that you still think that we are going to buy it.
That you think slapping the Nature label on our Reality explains anything and eliminates any God is ludicrous. Whatever evidence you use to identify it as Nature applies equally to identifying God. I am not concerned with getting YOU to buy anything. The hardcore atheist "deny anything that might support the existence of God" (as Arach calls you) have no interest in objectivity. Your materialism is comfortable and unthreatening and any suggestion that it is NOT the complete picture probably terrifies you. Jesus had a similar problem with our ancestors and the idea of Spirits which terrified them.
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Please, please, old mater, if you don't take anything else on board, learn that this semantic trick is a dead duck in the water, and appeals to unknowns doesn't help in the least.
You seem far more comfortable with ignorance and a denialist approach to issues than I am.
For several possible definitions of a god, yes. Gods that would leave no evidence. Which logically would mean not your god. The evidence is much better for no gods.
Then the EXISTENCE issue is solved as you admit. Arguing the myriad definitions and claims ABOUT God are separate issues that you want to pretend are EXISTENCE issues but they are not. You capriciously claim all the existing evidence for your preferred Nature label and pretend that the evidence does NOT apply to God as well without ANY substantiation. Then you pretend that the probability is on your side because you THINK ONE attribute (intelligence) is missing. It is YOUR understanding and knowledge of probability that is deficient, NOT mine.
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Then why do you rely on those gaps?
As I have repeatedly said, the EXISTENCE issue does NOT rely on gaps.
Whenever I hear people saying they "used to be Christians or lost their Christian faith," it's easy to conclude they never had a true "Christian" faith to begin with. Invariably, they mean they used to attend church, but, got disillusioned by the church or people claiming to be Christians.
True Christian faith is vested in God/Christ and His faithfulness, power and truth. He alone is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; righteous, holy and just - and always full of grace, mercy and truth. A true Christian is born again in God's Holy Spirit and becomes a new creation in Jesus Christ, who changes them from the inside-out. That is not a human attitude, belief or feeling, but, rather a confirming work of God and His Spirit.
No. One who "used to be a Christian," based their trust and faith on religion, people, church or a hundred other things, but, not Jesus Christ. No one can truly say, "I truly loved Christ and was born again in the Spirit," but, now I'm not.
Except intelligent, complex entities do not simply exist for no reason, which makes a complex god most improbable. Whereas we have evidence for nature, a whole universe full of it. So that means not only are they not equally evidenced, the default should start from no improbable god.
We have been over this fallacious NoGodFatih default numerous times. That you do not see that it is classic begging the question, there is little hope of educating you further about the serious damage it does to your premises.
Whenever I hear people saying they "used to be Christians or lost their Christian faith," it's easy to conclude they never had a true "Christian" faith to begin with. Invariably, they mean they used to attend church, but, got disillusioned by the church or people claiming to be Christians.
True Christian faith is vested in God/Christ and His faithfulness, power and truth. He alone is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; righteous, holy and just - and always full of grace, mercy and truth. A true Christian is born again in God's Holy Spirit and becomes a new creation in Jesus Christ, who changes them from the inside-out. That is not a human attitude, belief or feeling, but, rather a confirming work of God and His Spirit.
No. One who "used to be a Christian," based their trust and faith on religion, people, church or a hundred other things, but, not Jesus Christ. No one can truly say, "I truly loved Christ and was born again in the Spirit," but, now I'm not.
This is related to a point I've brought up a few times lately, but gotten no response on. So I'll try again. Christians brag about what percent of the population says they believe in god. But I content that it's very often a shallow faith -- as you point out here.
What number of christians do you think have that deep faith that you're talking about?
We have been over this fallacious NoGodFatih default numerous times. That you do not see that it is classic begging the question, there is little hope of educating you further about the serious damage it does to your premises.
Dear Harry Diogenes:
Once again we learn that when you disagree with MysticPhD, it actually that you are uneducated (or some other insult of the day).
Whenever I hear people saying they "used to be Christians or lost their Christian faith," it's easy to conclude they never had a true "Christian" faith to begin with. Invariably, they mean they used to attend church, but, got disillusioned by the church or people claiming to be Christians.
True Christian faith is vested in God/Christ and His faithfulness, power and truth. He alone is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; righteous, holy and just - and always full of grace, mercy and truth. A true Christian is born again in God's Holy Spirit and becomes a new creation in Jesus Christ, who changes them from the inside-out. That is not a human attitude, belief or feeling, but, rather a confirming work of God and His Spirit.
No. One who "used to be a Christian," based their trust and faith on religion, people, church or a hundred other things, but, not Jesus Christ. No one can truly say, "I truly loved Christ and was born again in the Spirit," but, now I'm not.
Complete indoctrinated nonsense. I had real fear of hell. I had the contentment of believing I had a god watching over me and blessing me. I talked to this god everyday with no expectation of hearing directly from it, but believing it heard me and was guiding me. I lived more than 35 years of my life questioning(due to numerous doctrines), yet believing this life was a drop in the ocean compared to eternity.
Christians like you are disgusting. How dare you callously judge another’s “faith”? The reality is that your “faith” is no more logical than any other individuals faith in another religion. Just because you haven’t matured enough to realize your Santa isn’t real, doesn’t mean we who have never had real faith. Grow up.
Whenever I hear people saying they "used to be Christians or lost their Christian faith," it's easy to conclude they never had a true "Christian" faith to begin with. Invariably, they mean they used to attend church, but, got disillusioned by the church or people claiming to be Christians.
True Christian faith is vested in God/Christ and His faithfulness, power and truth. He alone is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; righteous, holy and just - and always full of grace, mercy and truth. A true Christian is born again in God's Holy Spirit and becomes a new creation in Jesus Christ, who changes them from the inside-out. That is not a human attitude, belief or feeling, but, rather a confirming work of God and His Spirit.
No. One who "used to be a Christian," based their trust and faith on religion, people, church or a hundred other things, but, not Jesus Christ. No one can truly say, "I truly loved Christ and was born again in the Spirit," but, now I'm not.
It's hard to trust in someone that history says never existed. There is no historical record for a Jesus of Nazareth beside the Bible, which is untrustworthy as history anyway. I couldn't trust in Jesus to save me any more than I could trust in Harry Potter to save me simply because he appeared in a few novels. Mark is just a passion play for stage, that's what it was written for. Matthew adopted it, then Luke and then John and the rest is history. But the central character is missing in action.
Are you under the impression somehow that this paragraph was an attempt to prove Christianity was true? Because it wasn't. All I was saying was that even granting for the sake of argument that the bible is unreliable, it doesn't follow that therefore Christianity in and of itself isn't true. If only the aforementioned few details are true, then that's Christianity. The rest of the modern-day bible could be outright false and therefore certainly unreliable, and it wouldn't mean Christianity was false.
So yeah. No evidence.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
What foolishness. again you are fielding this feeble 'you can't disprove it' excuse - and it IS and excuse. If you can soundly debunk the Bible (and we can) including the tenets of Christianity, 'you can't disprove it' is as weak an witterring an excuse as I can imagine.
Ahh now you're changing it from "the bible is unreliable" to "the bible's been debunked". Two very different statements, as one merely suggests we can't trust the bible in all/most of what it says and the other seems to be sneaking in "Everything in the bible has been disproven". That would include the central tenets (e.g., Jesus being god's son, etc.) but of course that hasn't been disproven so you've either lost the thread of the argument or you're deliberately trying to mislead people as to what we were discussing.
To recap, though: the bible being unreliable wouldn't be evidence against Christianity because if only a few of the points (those central tenets) were true, Christianity would therefore be true.
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But even if Atheism did have its' extremists
It does. They're called anti-theists
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(other than the fake ones in Christian videos designed to discredit atheism)
that would not give you a solid reason to disagree with it, far from equating it with religion
Of course, I never did equate atheism with religion. But I did compare anti-theism with religious extremism, which seems perfectly reasonable.
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