Why I Lost My Christian Faith (prophets, punishments, ceremony, Israelites)

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

What evidence do you have or could you possibly have that our Reality is Not God????

What evidence do you have or could you possibly have that Reality is God? [Extra question marks don't help.] Hint: There is none. Absolutely zero. It's a totally ridiculous argument that serves no practical purpose. In addition, once such a statement is made, there is nothing to add and no parameters to discuss. In addition to being ridiculous, it is useless.

Do you realize how stupid that claim is???

Do you realize how logical that claim is?

What the hell ARE "natural" processes????

Processes that happen in nature based on natural phenomena using natural materials.

How do complex Realities exist for no reason????

You are the only one making this claim.

What is the reason for the existence of intelligence????

To keep life forms functioning. (Some work better than others, obviously.)

What is the reason for the existence of life????

To reproduce itself.

What is the reason for the existence of consciousness????

It helps the life forms reproduce themselves.

Since I have the Doctorate and held a Professorship for 30 years teaching probabilities and quantitative methods, what does your understanding of probabilities say about the probability that your accusation is true? Or given your love of Bayes, what is the likelihood it is true????

Most of us consider degrees entirely (as in 100%) irrelevant to the discussions we engage in on these forums.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

What evidence do you have or could you possibly have that Reality is God? Hint: There is none. Absolutely zero. It's a totally ridiculous argument ...

Correct, ridiculous. There never will be evidence...unless we become some advanced super scientists one day.

However, unlike many...and get this, ''without psychedelics", hahahahaha ...I have experienced in many
of those 'Special Ah-ha Moments' of Cosmic Consciousness, every single solitary thing you see even
a dust particle in a living room sunbeam is within the 'body' of this unimaginable 'Being' of
pure Consciousness everywhere and within everything. Oh my.
And that, my lucky friends, is the watered down version.
The one with more flourish? Lol ...and Reality? N-o-t-h-i-n-g you see with your eyes open is real.

And pls, don't believe me...experience it for yourself one day and then you too, can become a pariah among the majority!!!! Yay!!!!

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

What evidence do you have or could you possibly have that Reality is God? [Extra question marks don't help.] Hint: There is none. Absolutely zero. It's a totally ridiculous argument that serves no practical purpose. In addition, once such a statement is made, there is nothing to add and no parameters to discuss. In addition to being ridiculous, it is useless.



Do you realize how logical that claim is?



Processes that happen in nature based on natural phenomena using natural materials.



You are the only one making this claim.



To keep life forms functioning. (Some work better than others, obviously.)



To reproduce itself.



It helps the life forms reproduce themselves.




Most of us consider degrees entirely (as in 100%) irrelevant to the discussions we engage in on these forums.

You are right. Mystic's argument IS ridiculous. a child (but not apparently a Christian) can see that it is ridiculous. Everyone who engages with Mystic sees that it is ridiculous. And he becomes a figure of ridicule because he acts as though everyone else is stupid because they don't 'See' his argument.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Correct, ridiculous. There never will be evidence...unless we become some advanced super scientists one day.

However, unlike many...and get this, ''without psychedelics", hahahahaha ...I have experienced in many
of those 'Special Ah-ha Moments' of Cosmic Consciousness, every single solitary thing you see even
a dust particle in a living room sunbeam is within the 'body' of this unimaginable 'Being' of
pure Consciousness everywhere and within everything. Oh my.
And that, my lucky friends, is the watered down version.
The one with more flourish? Lol ...and Reality? N-o-t-h-i-n-g you see with your eyes open is real.

And pls, don't believe me...experience it for yourself one day and then you too, can become a pariah among the majority!!!! Yay!!!!

You may have noticed that I don't argue with you at all about this Experience, or whether it may be Understood one day. You may also have noticed that I have always accepted (as credible at least) Mystic's Mystical Experience and have even accepted that one day it could happen to me.

That has never been the subject of the debate - it has always been the beliefs that Mystic imposes on this Experience, and expects us to accept his claims that I have argued about.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

...
Since I have the Doctorate and held a Professorship for 30 years ...

When I was in grad school, my adviser, who had a doctorate and had held a professorship for a couple of decades was so drunk so often in both classes and his office that when my graduation was approaching he couldn't even rouse himself to sign off on my records. So the head of the department went with me to my adviser's office, where he found my adviser slumped over on his desk in a stupor, physically put a pen in my adviser's hand, and while he remained unconscious moved my adviser's hand to sign his signature on the required papers.

That's when I lost my faith in mere titles.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

You may have noticed that I don't argue with you at all about this Experience, or whether it may be Understood one day. You may also have noticed that I have always accepted (as credible at least) Mystic's Mystical Experience and have even accepted that one day it could happen to me.

Of course, I have!!! And I thank you, with respect...may you be an example to others...

Did you ever watch the new BattleStar Gallactica with Edward Olmos...in later seasons the DNA in some of the crew seemed to have 'timers' ...so that outta no where some of the crew, in one second, "Woke up " to the fact they weren't human!

Sometimes I think we all have an inner alarm clock...and one day on a hike that moment of
Cosmic Consciousness will hit..and you will reflect on Miss H and William Blake...and that is the
day your life is ruined....hahahaha...(Inside joke)

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Uhhh ...
Color me surprised. It only rules out making "No God" the default and requiring proof of God which is the mistaken atheist demand. I know YOU have the intellect to see that if you require proof of God other than what exists, you are implicitly declaring the default as "there is No God," right?

I don't think there is a default position on this. Because, like I said, it's unfalsifiable.

I just take the position of most atheists when I say that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe there *is* a god - but if there is, then it certainly isn't Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, or anything related to mankind's fetish for religion.

It would be a truly unknowable god that we really do not understand. None of this crazy talk of - "Well, God's mind is too vast, too complicated for a mere human to understand. BUT ... I understand that God hates gays and cares to an exceeding degree about our sexual proclivities, plus he hates it when people wear two different types of fabric together or plants two different crops in the same field. Women are worth half of what a man is worth, and we understand that God demands our worship, adoration and obedience and if we don't supply those things, he'll pop off and destroy a city or something. Otherwise, gee, I just can't possibly know the mind of God!"

Odd how people know just enough about God to use religion as a means of persecution, oppression, hatred, and authoritarian fascism - but not enough to really answer any of the big questions, ya know?

After watching believers cast about for any explanation no matter how ridiculous, it becomes more obvious every day that they're making it up as they go along. Now, the idea that God is only as powerful as logic allows - instead of simply "all powerful" as a means to duck out of the many logical paradoxes that occur with an all-powerful entity. What, it took 3,000 years to figure that out? Of course not. As I said, they're making stuff up as they go.

Anyone who can buy into this may as well be a JW and believe in all of their failed predictions. The contortions people perform to keep their god relevant is - unbelievable.

Which is why I've always said that including Christian myths in your theories about agape love and whatnot is a glaring departure from what would otherwise be an elegant explanation for certain things.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

When I was in grad school, my adviser, who had a doctorate and had held a professorship for a couple of decades was so drunk so often in both classes and his office that when my graduation was approaching he couldn't even rouse himself to sign off on my records. So the head of the department went with me to my adviser's office, where he found my adviser slumped over on his desk in a stupor, physically put a pen in my adviser's hand, and while he remained unconscious moved my adviser's hand to sign his signature on the required papers.
That's when I lost my faith in mere titles.

You certainly had grounds for doing so.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You certainly had grounds for doing so.

for the life of me I have no idea how come your god thing has to be a single field when the hierarchy of structure points to interactions between fields and consciousness. The net set of interactions explains what we see and is something you can point to as real.

You would really seal your claim as far more valid than deny everything due to a personal opinion about religion.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Shirina

I don't think there is a default position on this. Because, like I said, it's unfalsifiable.

Then we have no argument, Shirina. It is Arq, Rafe, etc. who demand the default because they do not allow their minds to contemplate deep enough into the premises they are using.

I just take the position of most atheists when I say that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe there *is* a god - but if there is, then it certainly isn't Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, or anything related to mankind's fetish for religion.

I take issue with your "there isn't sufficient evidence to believe there *is* a god" but completely agree with the rest. When you say there isn't sufficient evidence for God, you ARE implicitly establishing a default of "No God" which you admit does not exist. You cannot demand evidence of God that exceeds what we already know about Reality without implicitly CLAIMING the default position of "No God," but you can BELIEVE it. I cannot CLAIM God exists without declaring the default position but I can BELIEVE it. The difference between you and I is that I have an experience of God that overrides everything else so I am very adamant that there be NO DEFAULT. Everything about God is in the BELIEF category, including yours.

It would be a truly unknowable god that we really do not understand. None of this crazy talk of - "Well, God's mind is too vast, too complicated for a mere human to understand. BUT ... I understand that God hates gays and cares to an exceeding degree about our sexual proclivities, plus he hates it when people wear two different types of fabric together or plants two different crops in the same field. Women are worth half of what a man is worth, and we understand that God demands our worship, adoration and obedience and if we don't supply those things, he'll pop off and destroy a city or something. Otherwise, gee, I just can't possibly know the mind of God!"

Odd how people know just enough about God to use religion as a means of persecution, oppression, hatred, and authoritarian fascism - but not enough to really answer any of the big questions, ya know?

After watching believers cast about for any explanation no matter how ridiculous, it becomes more obvious every day that they're making it up as they go along. Now, the idea that God is only as powerful as logic allows - instead of simply "all-powerful" as a means to duck out of the many logical paradoxes that occur with an all-powerful entity. What, it took 3,000 years to figure that out? Of course not. As I said, they're making stuff up as they go.

Anyone who can buy into this may as well be a JW and believe in all of their failed predictions. The contortions people perform to keep their god relevant is - unbelievable.

We do not disagree about ANY of this, Shirina. Beliefs ABOUT God should have NO IMPACT on what others do or do not do. That is society's role in maintaining safety and order. Beliefs about God apply ONLY to each individual according to THEIR beliefs and have nothing to do with what ANY others do. We come into this life alone and we will leave it alone so any responsibility we have to God is between God and each of us individually.

Which is why I've always said that including Christian myths in your theories about agape love and whatnot is a glaring departure from what would otherwise be an elegant explanation for certain things.

I get that, but I came to adopt my modified Christian narrative well AFTER my Synthesis of our Reality and our place in it had been sufficiently elucidated into a coherent whole. I searched the spiritual fossil record for indications that an overarching consciousness was indeed influencing the spiritual evolution of our understanding of God (our Reality). The ubiquitous Savior or Avatar template did indeed match my Synthesis and the Christian descriptions of a God who IS love matched my experiences in detail. That did require, tho, that I modify the barbaric and savage mainstream Christian rationale used to interpret what Jesus was and what He did which is NOT reconcilable with my Experiences or my Synthesis.

Without too much ego, I believe my version of the Christian narrative is the most accurate description of the many earlier and less evolved Savior narratives because resonance and dissonance control and drive everything in our Reality. If our species' consciousness has a role to play in the Cosmic drama, it revolves around its resonance with the overarching consciousness that establishes our Reality, IMO. That means at least one member of our species has to attain perfect resonance (identity) with the overarching consciousness to connect ALL human consciousness with it. The rest of us need only achieve some harmonic resonance with the one human consciousness that achieved perfect resonance. That is why the Jesus narrative "resonated" with me and I adopted it.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Of course, I have!!! And I thank you, with respect...may you be an example to others...

Did you ever watch the new BattleStar Gallactica with Edward Olmos...in later seasons the DNA in some of the crew seemed to have 'timers' ...so that outta no where some of the crew, in one second, "Woke up " to the fact they weren't human!

Sometimes I think we all have an inner alarm clock...and one day on a hike that moment of
Cosmic Consciousness will hit..and you will reflect on Miss H and William Blake...and that is the
day your life is ruined....hahahaha...(Inside joke)

I could never get into Battle Galactica. I rather followed Stargate.