Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because the Threat to American Right -wing fundamentalist religion and Trumpery politics is not Islam, or North Korea or Obamacare. It's the rising tide of religious disbelief.
One of the biggest reasons -- if not the most important reason -- why so much of Christianity is married to right-wing politics is because both right-wing politics and religion share A LOT of commonalities.
For instance, both are authoritarian; the GOP has become increasingly fascistic and authoritarian ever since 2008 when a black man dared to become the president. Trump is the closest thing we've ever had to an authoritarian president -- and now the population is flirting dangerously with extremism in politics, much of it centered on a backwards and excessively primitive version of Christianity.
Another example is that both religion and far-right politics relies on dumbing down the population. No, Christians, I'm not saying you're dumb if you believe in God. But chances are, if you're not a Biblical literalist, a YEC adherent, a fundamentalist, or an evangelist, you're not a Republican.
What I'm talking about is religious extremism. Both rely on its adherents to mistrust the very agencies that are most likely to tell the truth: Science in the case of religion and the press in the case of politics. The far-right have swallowed both of these things, whereby evolution is fake, the Big Bang is fake, climate change is fake - don't listen to those evil scientists who are trying to turn you away from God. And, of course, you have the Trump-Goebbels partnership in propaganda as Trump tells the Big Lie quite often -- that any media outlet that dares to criticize him is "fake news."
Now, to most Republicans, the mainstream media has truly become .... fake news. It wasn't fake news in October of 2016. Suddenly, by December, it was all fake.
Religion and right-wing politics both rely on what Trump calls "alternative facts." For religion, it's Bible stories like the Flood and Adam and Eve. Those are "alternative facts" that have no evidential place in reality yet are believed far and above *actual* facts like evolution. A crazy and insane story like Noah and the Flood is as real to them as having more people at his inauguration than Obama DESPITE the pictures showing otherwise is real to Trump. Yeah, 3,000,000 illegal voters ALL voting for Hillary is an "alternative fact" in politics as a talking snake convincing Eve to eat a forbidden magical fruit located in a paradise garden is an "alternative fact" for many Christians.
I've often said that Americans are a very strange culture -- they crow all day about freedom, democracy, the right to choose and forge our own destinies and the virtues of "rugged individualism" and personal responsibility. Yet they venerate corporations and big business -- which is both fascistic in nature AND eliminates personal responsibility with incorporation laws so that the business itself, rather than the people who run it, are held liable for wrong doings. On top of that, they worship an authoritarian, dictatorial god that practices just about every moral depravity that the Constitution is designed to prevent -- from cruel and unusual punishments to freedom of and from religion. After all, God was NOT for freedom of religion (think of the first commandment), freedom of speech (blasphemy as the unforgiveable sin) or democracy (when did the Hebrews ever get to vote on one of God's stupid laws?).
Also, you mentioned the C of E. I'm guessing you are British -- if not English? One thing that Europe had that America did not was the horrible lessons of WWII.
The unimaginable violence, destruction, and death -- as well as simple inconveniences due to rationing of everything from sugar to gasoline -- really toned down religious fervor all along the European continent. I've heard more than one Holocaust survivor or Blitz survivor or survivor of the Warsaw uprising say that the war convinced them that there was no God. For many many millions, those that still believed began believing with far less zealotry and fanaticism -- and far-right conservative politics became damn near non-existent. Even today, the Tories of Britain seem like flaming liberals compared to the quasi-fascist GOP in this country.
Americans never learned that lesson. in fact, we learned all the WRONG lessons. One of the worst is the concept of "American Exceptionalism" which essentially states that God is granting America a special blessing -- and they use our sudden rise to superpower status after WWII as proof. Except, yeah, perhaps having two large oceans between us and the enemy had something to do with it? And the fact that the Axis didn't have the technology to damage the U.S. mainland? And just maybe being the only major economy still functioning at full capacity after the war had just a little something to do with why America became so prosperous during the 50's and 60's.
But no ... it wasn't any of those things. It was God. It had to be God.
And for some stupid reason, we remain the ONLY nation on the planet that still believes health care is a luxury rather than a right -- of no more importance or need than a 100-inch HD 4K 3D television. Never mind that the "right to life" is supposed to be inalienable, granted to us by the same God they claim to worship. Well, how can one have the "right to life" if we cannot afford our health care?
Yeah ... this nation has its priorities all messed up because we gave God credit for everything after the war and learned NOTHING from it, not even from watching the horrors in Europe play out before our very eyes.
You can barely drive a mile -- even in rural areas -- without coming across some sort of religious message planted there for every motorist to see. Nope. You can't help but see an array of billboards, signs, hand-written boards nailed to poles with Bible verses on them, bumper stickers and other religious car decorations, crosses (which are sometimes huge and even lit up at night), cutesy little signs that churches display with their letter boards, and on and on. Even the Dairy Queen in Meadville, PA has its sign reading, "Jesus Saves." Yeah, a corporate restaurant and even THEY are getting into the act of spraying religion in our faces. The Methodist church just down the street from where I live belts out 3 or 4 synthesized hymns at noon and six every ... single ... day, and those hymns echo up and down the valley.
It is in escapable.
But you know what? Even as a militant atheist and anti-theist, I don't get upset every time I see one. As I've said, seeing religion everywhere has almost become so ubiquitous that I don't even notice it unless it's particularly out-of-place like the Dairy Queen sign (which should be advertizing a food special, not advertizing a religion) or if a church's cutesy letter board sign is particularly insulting to atheists.
Even here in my very liberal town I did a double take this morning as I walked the dog past a couple of townhome buildings in my development and noted at the far end of the most distant building a yard sign had sprung up in front of one of the townhomes that said JESUS blah blah something (probably "is the reason for the season" or "is the hope of mankind"). This induced a near-automatic eye-roll but I detected no increase in blood pressure at all. It's just run of the mill unsubstantiated assertion that we encounter all. the. time. It's a unit that's rented out, probably to a student, so at least it's not someone with voting rights in my HOA. [sigh]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Which means -- WHICH MEANS -- that, as an atheist having to put up with the constant barrage of religious brainwashing, religion's incessant attempts at enculturating the entire population -- if I want to come to an internet forum DESIGNED for debate about religion so I can express how I REALLY feel, then that's is PRECISELY what I'm going to do.
*clap* *clap* *clap* This is what the whiners -- er, believers -- so easily forget. This is an environment designed for the express purpose of debating these exact matters. Most atheists don't even come here. Certainly the ones that do, have an interest in the topic. An interest that is no less legitimate than anyone else's. The ONLY reason for the constant whine-fest is that we come bearing inconvenient points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
And I just don't CARE if you think it's "weird" or if you just can't figure out why we atheists bother.
Nor do I -- or CAN I, if I want to not let the theist conga line ruin my daily life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
I dunno anymore. I'm so tired of this that, honestly, I've thought about hanging up my militant atheist hat once and for all. To just slam the door, pull the shades, dim the lights, and have as little to do with the world outside my home -- because I REALLY don't like where this country is headed.
On my worst days -- right there with ya. But you pulling back would be both our loss, and yours. I hope you'll keep right on dishing out Shirina shellackings.
Where I have pulled back is the political realm. Although when (not if) Trump tries directly or indirectly to fire Mueller, I will take to the streets with the best of them, for the most part, I'm just too disappointed in my fellow man to respond to the endless barrage of alerts that fill my daily mailbox notifying me of yet more perfidy, dishonesty, and downright craziness in the political realm too.. I was already invested in the long game when it came to countering religious ideology, anyway, and given the way fundamentalism is welded at the hip with right wing nuttery anymore, I think it's the best investment of my time.
Why Do Atheists Feel the Need to Discredit Christ?
This was the original question. But it should be reworded.
Why do Christians feel the need to discredit Christ? Because American Christians drive more people away from Christ than any Atheist ever could. I say this as a man who grew up in church. The bigotry, fear, hatred, embrace of ignorance, and lack of compassion drove me away for good.
Why Do Atheists Feel the Need to Discredit Christ?
This was the original question. But it should be reworded.
Why do Christians feel the need to discredit Christ? Because American Christians drive more people away from Christ than any Atheist ever could. I say this as a man who grew up in church. The bigotry, fear, hatred, embrace of ignorance, and lack of compassion drove me away for good.
Even here in my very liberal town I did a double take this morning as I walked the dog past a couple of townhome buildings in my development and noted at the far end of the most distant building a yard sign had sprung up in front of one of the townhomes that said JESUS blah blah something (probably "is the reason for the season" or "is the hope of mankind"). This induced a near-automatic eye-roll but I detected no increase in blood pressure at all. It's just run of the mill unsubstantiated assertion that we encounter all. the. time. It's a unit that's rented out, probably to a student, so at least it's not someone with voting rights in my HOA. [sigh]
*clap* *clap* *clap* This is what the whiners -- er, believers -- so easily forget. This is an environment designed for the express purpose of debating these exact matters. Most atheists don't even come here. Certainly the ones that do, have an interest in the topic. An interest that is no less legitimate than anyone else's. The ONLY reason for the constant whine-fest is that we come bearing inconvenient points.
Nor do I -- or CAN I, if I want to not let the theist conga line ruin my daily life.
On my worst days -- right there with ya. But you pulling back would be both our loss, and yours. I hope you'll keep right on dishing out Shirina shellackings.
Where I have pulled back is the political realm. Although when (not if) Trump tries directly or indirectly to fire Mueller, I will take to the streets with the best of them, for the most part, I'm just too disappointed in my fellow man to respond to the endless barrage of alerts that fill my daily mailbox notifying me of yet more perfidy, dishonesty, and downright craziness in the political realm too.. I was already invested in the long game when it came to countering religious ideology, anyway, and given the way fundamentalism is welded at the hip with right wing nuttery anymore, I think it's the best investment of my time.
Yes. After Brexit, I felt just like that. I never cared much about politics, but now I don't care at all. It's just possible that Trump was a a final protest of the politico -religious dinosaurs before they went extinct. If so, and the rise of irreligion finally swamps it, europe may sit up and take notice and get the idea of using government, rather than being used by it.
And breaking the hypnotic trance brought about by Bible -based religion might be a very important part of that process. If that isn't working for us, we could be heading for some very dark times.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
