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Even here in my very liberal town I did a double take this morning as I walked the dog past a couple of townhome buildings in my development and noted at the far end of the most distant building a yard sign had sprung up in front of one of the townhomes that said JESUS blah blah something (probably "is the reason for the season" or "is the hope of mankind"). This induced a near-automatic eye-roll but I detected no increase in blood pressure at all. It's just run of the mill unsubstantiated assertion that we encounter all. the. time. It's a unit that's rented out, probably to a student, so at least it's not someone with voting rights in my HOA. [sigh]
*clap* *clap* *clap* This is what the whiners -- er, believers -- so easily forget. This is an environment designed for the express purpose of debating these exact matters. Most atheists don't even come here. Certainly the ones that do, have an interest in the topic. An interest that is no less legitimate than anyone else's. The ONLY reason for the constant whine-fest is that we come bearing inconvenient points.
Nor do I -- or CAN I, if I want to not let the theist conga line ruin my daily life.
On my worst days -- right there with ya. But you pulling back would be both our loss, and yours. I hope you'll keep right on dishing out Shirina shellackings.
Where I have pulled back is the political realm. Although when (not if) Trump tries directly or indirectly to fire Mueller, I will take to the streets with the best of them, for the most part, I'm just too disappointed in my fellow man to respond to the endless barrage of alerts that fill my daily mailbox notifying me of yet more perfidy, dishonesty, and downright craziness in the political realm too.. I was already invested in the long game when it came to countering religious ideology, anyway, and given the way fundamentalism is welded at the hip with right wing nuttery anymore, I think it's the best investment of my time.
this is the typical problem.
and "legitimate reason to be anti-anything" is a false equivalence. Having an axe to grind proves nothing. denying science in favor of the "the cause" is exactly what a fundy does. there is no such thing as an ex fundy, only recovering fundy's.
otherwise nice sermon you gave there tho. i can close my eyes, pretend to hear the word "god" every so often and its bible belt milli-mentalism.
Then there’s no need to ***** about atheist then, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15
And that boils down to you have nothing.
What a way to live a life
NOTHING is infallible or can be known absolutely. You can't even be sure what you think is the Reality you experience is actually for real.
So, since nobody else (including you) has anything more than "Faith & Belief" in the merit of the info and data that backs up their so-called "facts", and what they claim to "know"...I guess you are saying we are all sunk.
I see Atheism as having less basis then even Religion.
The only concepts that hold to logic and reason are Pantheism and Agnosticism.
Why Do Atheists Feel the Need to Discredit Christ?
This was the original question. But it should be reworded.
Why do Christians feel the need to discredit Christ? Because American Christians drive more people away from Christ than any Atheist ever could. I say this as a man who grew up in church. The bigotry, fear, hatred, embrace of ignorance, and lack of compassion drove me away for good.
I see Atheism as having less basis then even Religion.
The only concepts that hold to logic and reason are Pantheism and Agnosticism.
It has nothing to do with logic.
It has everything to do with this basic human NEED for everything to have some kind of intelligence behind it, regardless of what that intelligence is called.
The human brain resists, fights, wars against the concept of random chance, luck, or beating the odds. No, there must be MEANING for everything, a REASON for everything -- as if every fart, belch, and nose-pick is part of a grand script that forms an immense story.
And everyone wants to be the lead character.
So it just CAN'T be atheism that has any merit --- oh no, fantastical stories of all-powerful supernatural beings are more likely than atheism!
Anyone who says THAT is certainly not using logic -- but rather giving in to the brain's automatic revulsion towards something happening just because of dumb luck.
Even the implication that, say, Muhammed rode up to heaven on a Pegasus (thanks Greeks for giving the Muslims that idea; I wonder where Muhammed got his Pegasus from? Did he steal it from Perseus, I wonder?) is preposterous yet here we are.
It's as if no one gives a flying "F" what's true anymore. So we wallow in our fantasies, blinded by this craving for the universe to be something more than just a whole lot of space, noble gases, giant nuclear furnaces, and stray molecules.
It MUST be something more -- because I WANT it to be something more -- so cultures everywhere have rationalized all kinds of nonsense, wishing it into reality in the same way children wish into existence the imaginary characters in their games of "Pretend."
Sorry, GldnRule, but that's the way I see it -- and I'm pretty certain I have the right of it.
It has everything to do with this basic human NEED for everything to have some kind of intelligence behind it, regardless of what that intelligence is called.
The human brain resists, fights, wars against the concept of random chance, luck, or beating the odds. No, there must be MEANING for everything, a REASON for everything -- as if every fart, belch, and nose-pick is part of a grand script that forms an immense story.
And everyone wants to be the lead character.
So it just CAN'T be atheism that has any merit --- oh no, fantastical stories of all-powerful supernatural beings are more likely than atheism!
Anyone who says THAT is certainly not using logic -- but rather giving in to the brain's automatic revulsion towards something happening just because of dumb luck.
Even the implication that, say, Muhammed rode up to heaven on a Pegasus (thanks Greeks for giving the Muslims that idea; I wonder where Muhammed got his Pegasus from? Did he steal it from Perseus, I wonder?) is preposterous yet here we are.
It's as if no one gives a flying "F" what's true anymore. So we wallow in our fantasies, blinded by this craving for the universe to be something more than just a whole lot of space, noble gases, giant nuclear furnaces, and stray molecules.
It MUST be something more -- because I WANT it to be something more -- so cultures everywhere have rationalized all kinds of nonsense, wishing it into reality in the same way children wish into existence the imaginary characters in their games of "Pretend."
Sorry, GldnRule, but that's the way I see it -- and I'm pretty certain I have the right of it.
I adore your posts, Shirina. Your razor sharp mind is awesome. But the very attribute of human life that creates what you decry as a NEED to have a reason for everything is our consciousness. It is also the attribute that our best efforts fail to explain or incorporate into our models of reality using the most current science and mathematics. We cannot find a way to incorporate subjective perceptions into our equations rendering the reductionist materialism impotent as the default position on reality. Subjectivity itself is endemic to and inherent in the very basis of our reality. Since subjectivity is exclusively the attribute of consciousness that means that our reality itself must be consciousness - what we call the unified field. You weaponize your consciousness admirably in the defense of reason and rationality pointing out the absurd and dangerous memes that fuel religious fervor. Sadly you seem to think that renders God non-existent because of our flawed and ridiculous human explanations and conceptualizations. You indict God on the basis of human fallibility and absurdities. That is a non-sequitur.
It has everything to do with this basic human NEED for everything to have some kind of intelligence behind it, regardless of what that intelligence is called.
The human brain resists, fights, wars against the concept of random chance, luck, or beating the odds. No, there must be MEANING for everything, a REASON for everything -- as if every fart, belch, and nose-pick is part of a grand script that forms an immense story.
And everyone wants to be the lead character.
So it just CAN'T be atheism that has any merit --- oh no, fantastical stories of all-powerful supernatural beings are more likely than atheism!
Anyone who says THAT is certainly not using logic -- but rather giving in to the brain's automatic revulsion towards something happening just because of dumb luck.
Even the implication that, say, Muhammed rode up to heaven on a Pegasus (thanks Greeks for giving the Muslims that idea; I wonder where Muhammed got his Pegasus from? Did he steal it from Perseus, I wonder?) is preposterous yet here we are.
It's as if no one gives a flying "F" what's true anymore. So we wallow in our fantasies, blinded by this craving for the universe to be something more than just a whole lot of space, noble gases, giant nuclear furnaces, and stray molecules.
It MUST be something more -- because I WANT it to be something more -- so cultures everywhere have rationalized all kinds of nonsense, wishing it into reality in the same way children wish into existence the imaginary characters in their games of "Pretend."
Sorry, GldnRule, but that's the way I see it -- and I'm pretty certain I have the right of it.
Don't be sorry Shirina...I agree that you have a pretty together view of things.
Every statement, claim, concept, etc, comes down to logic and reason to be viable.
The Metaphorical Deity based Religions, on a fully literal basis, are not logical...in kinda the same way Atheism isn't logical.
The Religions don't have objectively substantiated evidence to back their determinations...so, there is a lack of evidence that is verified.
Atheism admits it is based upon a "no evidence" premise. But a determination is drawn off that flawed premise ("no evidence" cannot *be* evidence) anyway. Any conclusion void of evidence is illogical from the jump.
Of course Agnosticism ("don't know") is logical. If one does not know...is a completely reasonable statement to say you don't.
And Pantheism ("ALL" as God) is certainly logical...since "ALL" definitively comports as "G-O-D", and not only objectively exists, but is self-substantiating.
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