Satan isn’t a liar after all... (disciples, Jewish, believers)
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The first king of Israel said in his heart,'' If I let these people go up to Jerusalem to keep the feasts of the Lord, I will lose my kingdom and all my people will revert to the king of Judah.
The kingdom of Israel called the Torah a strange thing from the beginning, they became lawless and adopted the winter solstice and Easter in replacement of Passover and Sukkot. For 300 years they remained lawless until God ended them.
This is why Jesus tells us the story of the prodigal nation and the nation of Judah.
Judah never left the laws of Moses, it is already on their hearts. The house of Israel had removed the laws from their hearts as Christianity has. God says he is going to put them back.
I must commend you for that point Richard and for Hannibal for seeing it. It is of course not unknown that Judah (or at least the writers in Judea) accused Israel of backsliding and being too tolerant of other gods and religions. Thus when the Assyrians obliterated the two tribes of the northern Kingdom, Judah, while dutifully grieving about it in a passage later hi -jacked by Matthew as a prophecy of a Herodian massacre that we can risk a bet never happened, their view was "those backsliding bastards had it coming".
Unsurprisingly, the line of the Judean Priestly clan was: "Do not say "A coalition", but rely upon God". And consider how Jerusalem survived an Assyrian siege while you're at it (and the less said about the sack of Laschish, and Hezekiah submitting and paying tribute, the better.)
But all that aside, I'm a bit curious about this idea of the idea of 'the laws of Moses written on the hearts of...let's be sure I didn't misread you...yes. Bot Israel and Judah has the Laws of Moses 'written on their hearts' but then Israel slipped away from the laws and Din't have the laws written on their hearts anymore (and paid the price) while Judah still Did have the Laws written on their hearts.
So how can you say that the 'written on the hearts' passage applies to Israel and not to Judah?
I must commend you for that point Richard and for Hannibal for seeing it. It is of course not unknown that Judah (or at least the writers in Judea) accused Israel of backsliding and being too tolerant of other gods and religions. Thus when the Assyrians obliterated the two tribes of the northern Kingdom, Judah, while dutifully grieving about it in a passage later hi -jacked by Matthew as a prophecy of a Herodian massacre that we can risk a bet never happened, their view was "those backsliding bastards had it coming".
Unsurprisingly, the line of the Judean Priestly clan was: "Do not say "A coalition", but rely upon God". And consider how Jerusalem survived an Assyrian siege while you're at it (and the less said about the sack of Laschish, and Hezekiah submitting and paying tribute, the better.)
But all that aside, I'm a bit curious about this idea of the idea of 'the laws of Moses written on the hearts of...let's be sure I didn't misread you...yes. Bot Israel and Judah has the Laws of Moses 'written on their hearts' but then Israel slipped away from the laws and Din't have the laws written on their hearts anymore (and paid the price) while Judah still Did have the Laws written on their hearts.
So how can you say that the 'written on the hearts' passage applies to Israel and not to Judah?
It is a whole lot of history and everyone has it in their mind that Israel were the same people as Judah just like you say here. We are talking about two different people, two different nations, two different religions..
The house of Israel did not have the law, they rejected the law for good reason, Jereboam knew he would lose his kingdom if they kept the same religion as the Jews. The first king changed everything and they called the law a strange thing from the beginning with decade after decade, century after century of allying with Egypt or Syria against Judah......They rejected the law for 300 years until their rejection ended their kingdom.
The ten tribes of Ephraim were never Jews, and there was always a divide between Joseph and David because of practical reasons. The prophesies of either seemed to rival each other where David would rule and then great blessings bestowed on Joseph to where you chose either side, and they were divided before they ever became kingdoms. David united them all for the first time when he built Jerusalem in Benjamin because Benjamin was the only tribe contained in both sides.
But no, they did not have the law, they built Bethel and Dan to turn their people away from the God of Israel until they literally became Gentiles.( Not My People)
Elijah was sent against Israel, not Judah, Judah has never let God, and Elijah was sent against Israel because of their dividision with Judah and separation from Jerusalem and the ways of God.
Most everyone reads about Israel thinking Israel are the same people as the people of Judah when they couldn't have been more different, one is lawless, the other is lawfull.......
Elijah came upon on Israel worshipping Baal because they were all pagan, and this is why Elijah says,'' GOOD LORD, I AM THE ONLY PERSON IN ALL OF ISRAEL WHO IS NOT A PAGAN.''
Then God told him about his 7000 remnant he reserves from the house Israel, the same remnant Paul claims to be a member of.
I must commend you for that point Richard and for Hannibal for seeing it. It is of course not unknown that Judah (or at least the writers in Judea) accused Israel of backsliding and being too tolerant of other gods and religions. Thus when the Assyrians obliterated the two tribes of the northern Kingdom, Judah, while dutifully grieving about it in a passage later hi -jacked by Matthew as a prophecy of a Herodian massacre that we can risk a bet never happened, their view was "those backsliding bastards had it coming".
Unsurprisingly, the line of the Judean Priestly clan was: "Do not say "A coalition", but rely upon God". And consider how Jerusalem survived an Assyrian siege while you're at it (and the less said about the sack of Laschish, and Hezekiah submitting and paying tribute, the better.)
But all that aside, I'm a bit curious about this idea of the idea of 'the laws of Moses written on the hearts of...let's be sure I didn't misread you...yes. Bot Israel and Judah has the Laws of Moses 'written on their hearts' but then Israel slipped away from the laws and Din't have the laws written on their hearts anymore (and paid the price) while Judah still Did have the Laws written on their hearts.
So how can you say that the 'written on the hearts' passage applies to Israel and not to Judah?
Because it says it right there in Jeremiah 31...
30 Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant.
31 Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord.
32 For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My people.
Notice in verse 30 that He is talking about the two houses, Judah and Israel, then in verse 32 He focuses on just the house of Israel, the Northern Kingdom...It is this House that He writes His Torah on the hearts of...
Last edited by Richard1965; 11-14-2018 at 05:45 PM..
Judah has never left the law but when Israel was still a nation, many Jews of Judah began taking on the paganism of Ephraim until God ended Ephraim and took Judah into Babylon .
They never left the law, they never called the law a strange thing, and again, Judah and Ephraim are in fact the two sons a man once had, one who stayed home, and one became a lawless prodigal nation and became as a dead man, but Judah was still going strong when Jesus shows us their history in that parable.
It's too bad that you can't even discuss that scripture with most Christians, it would have had to been a Jew to teach me that.
Why not? That's who wrote the Tanach. I have always wondered why Christians won't trust Jews about their own book. To my mind that just seems so insulting, as well as illogical since it was also studied and argued by the Jews for many many generations, whereas the average Christian didn't even have access to reading it until a few hundred years ago (educated people only), and even then it was the reworded, Christianized version.
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