Satan isn’t a liar after all... (Christ, religion, witness)
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Actually all have free will. God wants his creations to use that free will to listen to his advice to find the best path to lasting happiness. Few do.
Nothing to do with what you said. If your god made A+E to know only good but they instead chose bad, then that is clear and indisputable evidence that the product wad faulty. If a machine is supposed to draw circles and only circles but instead it draws squares, then clearly, there is something wrong with the machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47
Mortals need to get it into their heads--the creator knows his creation better than the creation does. He is always correct.
The thing that separates us from the animals is free will. He knows everything that will happen. He knows everyone who will choose him. He loved us so much, that he let us make our own choices. Even to reject Him.
We who seek Him.. We will have enriched lives, etc.
We who reject him.. "Depart from me, I never knew thee."
We did not evolve.. We were created.
Hope this helps.
Yes we CAN reject him if we choose...BUT we are punished for doing that too!!! (punished by suffering for eternity in hell fire).
Like the other poster said...If there is a WRONG choice...there was NO choice to begin with.
Nothing to do with what you said. If your god made A+E to know only good but they instead chose bad, then that is clear and indisputable evidence that the product wad faulty. If a machine is supposed to draw circles and only circles but instead it draws squares, then clearly, there is something wrong with the machine.
The thing that separates us from the animals is free will. He knows everything that will happen. He knows everyone who will choose him. He loved us so much, that he let us make our own choices. Even to reject Him.
We who seek Him.. We will have enriched lives, etc.
We who reject him.. "Depart from me, I never knew thee."
We did not evolve.. We were created.
Hope this helps.
Logic is not YOUR strong point. If he knows what we will choose, we can not change our mind to something else. Therefore we have no free will, or your god does NOT know all that will happen. You can not have both.
Yes we CAN reject him if we choose...BUT we are punished for doing that too!!! (punished by suffering for eternity in hellfire).
Like the other poster said...If there is a WRONG choice...there was NO choice to begin with.
Logic is not YOUR strong point. If he knows what we will choose, we can not change our mind to something else. Therefore we have no free will, or your god does NOT know all that will happen. You can not have both.
He may know but we don’t...It’s for our edification...
He may know but we don’t...It’s for our edification...
If he already knows which way we'll go then what good will instruction do?
If he already knows, say, I'll go to hell then why teach me anything? I'm going to the worst no matter what I learn in between. If he already knows I'll go to heaven then how can teaching me help make that better? There IS nothing better to aspire to than heaven.
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chronicles 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jeremiah 4:10
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11
That's what it comes down to? Just copy and paste from the skeptics annotated bible?
Ok, let's take a look at these Scriptures:
2 Chronicles 18:22
2 Chronicles 18:19-21 indicates God allows this to occur and not that he lied.
He allows Tom, Dick, or Harry to feed falsehoods to false prophets. Falsehoods to people who have made it their trade by spewing false information. And, the people who put trust in these prophets had rejected God's own prophets. Was it morally wrong and thus deceptive? No.
Here's a different translation of Jeremiah 4:10:
"In response to all this I said, “Ah, Lord God, you have surely allowed the people of Judah and Jerusalem to be deceived by those who say, ‘You will be safe!’ But in fact a sword is already at our throats.” The majority of the people in Judah and Jerusalem had put their trust in the false prophets and rejected the warnings from God. Again similar situations as in Ahab's time. He allows people who already have it in their hearts to believe the lies after warning them. Was it morally wrong and thus deceptive? No.
Here's a translation of Ezekiel 14:9 from the Tanakh:
"But the prophet who is enticed and speaks a word-I, the Lord, have enticed that prophet, and I shall stretch out My hand upon him and destroy him from the midst of My people Israel." Again these are false prophets whose living is dealing in falsehoods. Ultimately by allowing them to continue making false prophecies there true character would be revealed. Was his action morally wrong and thus deceptive? No.
We are conditioned to think of deception as something morally wrong because it can be. However, allowing deception to occur is not in and of itself deceitful in the sense of being immoral or unethical.
What if a person or persons are not just allowing but actually involved in deceit? Example, some Jews were saved during WW2 by the bravery of some who handed out visas/passports to people that were not lawfully entitled to them. That is deception is it not? Is it morally wrong?
If the God of the Bible is the true God then the means by which he accomplishes his will is not morally wrong. Why? because ultimately Mankind has a hope of living in peace. That's the future for mankind. By the way I am one of many Christians who have come to understand that the Bible doesn't teach of an afterlife nor does it teach eternal hell fire. For many, Christians or not and regardless of race and social status, there is the eventual resurrection. For some there isn't.
Contrast that with Satan's lie. No hope. No peace, No future for anyone.
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The Godfather choice.
