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Old 10-31-2018, 04:23 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,013,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Satan lied to Eve to get her to rebel. All have free will.
If we'll be punished for cboosing, then we don't have free will at all. Free is free.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:47 PM
 
5,912 posts, read 2,606,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
If we'll be punished for cboosing, then we don't have free will at all. Free is free.
KaBOOM!
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:02 PM
 
63,818 posts, read 40,109,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
If we'll be punished for choosing, then we don't have free will at all. Free is free.
Ding! Ding! Ding!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
KaBOOM!
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:10 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,920,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
If we'll be punished for cboosing, then we don't have free will at all. Free is free.

Mortals need to get it into their heads--the creator knows his creation better than the creation does. He is always correct. God set before all-LIFE or DEATH. ( Deut 30:19) We choose now-95% action, 5% lip service.
Few on earth even know God.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:14 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,920,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
But she still couldn't have rebelled if "God made her to know only good." She'd have just stared at the serpent in confusion, then wandered off to go eat the approved stuff.

She could not have rebelled unless God created her not only capable of rebelling, but created her to lean more toward rebellion than "good," hence choosing it (rebellion).


Free will--All have it now. Mortals do not give anyone freedom. They can only try to take them away. Anyone can go murder another if they choose with their free will to do so. No laws stop it if one chooses. It goes for all sin. One can be a drunkard, idolater, greedy, etc--all unacceptable to God. Many things are shown to be unacceptable, yet most practice them.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:43 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,013,051 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Mortals need to get it into their heads--the creator knows his creation better than the creation does. He is always correct. God set before all-LIFE or DEATH. ( Deut 30:19) We choose now-95% action, 5% lip service.
Few on earth even know God.
If he knows us better than we know ourselves then it is he who created us to want to rebel and knew before he ever did so that we would. He knew before we were conceived how we would act - since it was all of his creation.

Therefore, it's not possible to legitimately punish us. I don't draw green pictures and then tear them up for being green. I don't tip a cup a little and then go, "If you fall all the way over I'll be furious!"
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:45 PM
 
2,211 posts, read 1,574,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Not once did God lie.

Amen.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:47 PM
 
2,211 posts, read 1,574,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
If he knows us better than we know ourselves then it is he who created us to want to rebel and knew before he ever did so that we would. He knew before we were conceived how we would act - since it was all of his creation.

Therefore, it's not possible to legitimately punish us. I don't draw green pictures and then tear them up for being green. I don't tip a cup a little and then go, "If you fall all the way over I'll be furious!"

Logic isn't your strong point.

The thing that separates us from the animals is free will. He knows everything that will happen. He knows everyone who will choose him. He loved us so much, that he let us make our own choices. Even to reject Him.


We who seek Him.. We will have enriched lives, etc.



We who reject him.. "Depart from me, I never knew thee."

We did not evolve.. We were created.



Hope this helps.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:49 PM
 
2,211 posts, read 1,574,952 times
Reputation: 1668
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
If we'll be punished for cboosing, then we don't have free will at all. Free is free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
KaBOOM!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Ding! Ding! Ding!


Now you're just twisting it around, and making stuff up. And those that agreed aren't that stupid...



If we have free will to choose eternal life, or our own reward.. then we do indeed have the choice.


I see through you.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:49 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,013,051 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamer1 View Post
Logic isn't your strong point.

The thing that separates us from the animals is free will. He knows everything that will happen. He knows everyone who will choose him. He loved us so much, that he let us make our own choices. Even to reject Him.


We who seek Him.. We will have enriched lives, etc.



We who reject him.. "Depart from me, I never knew thee."

We did not evolve.. We were created.



Hope this helps.
If he knows in advance who will "choose" him then it is preordained, and neither choice nor free will.
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