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Old 10-06-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,026,116 times
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Judaism teaches that human beings are not basically sinful. We come into the world neither carrying the burden of sin committed by our ancestors nor tainted by it. Rather, sin, chet, is the result of our human inclinations, the yetzer, which must be properly channeled. - https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...h-view-of-sin/


It is not really difficult if one desires to be a good person...
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,375,370 times
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I agree! 100%, Richard.

Of course we have that definition that apparently comes from Greek translations it's
just 'missing the mark.
I don't use the word 'sin'...I do make mistakes, tho....but, even then my so-called mistakes were perfect for me to learn from!
Sometimes, for the other person to learn forgiveness.
See? Life is really so simple.
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,026,116 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I agree! 100%, Richard.

Of course we have that definition that apparently comes from Greek translations it's
just 'missing the mark.
I don't use the word 'sin'...I do make mistakes, tho....but, even then my so-called mistakes were perfect for me to learn from!
Sometimes, for the other person to learn forgiveness.
See? Life is really so simple.
Without evil in the world would we really know what righteousness is?...
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:18 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,086,525 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
I agree! 100%, Richard.

Of course we have that definition that apparently comes from Greek translations it's
just 'missing the mark.
I don't use the word 'sin'...I do make mistakes, tho....but, even then my so-called mistakes were perfect for me to learn from!
Sometimes, for the other person to learn forgiveness.
See? Life is really so simple.
On a broader scale I agree with you and OP. It makes sense that we are born sinless. And everyone is responsible for their own actions whether good or bad.

There are two additional items.

1 - When someone teaches and/or does something good and that teaching/action spreads to other people and their generations who carry on with doing the good action then the person and his soul who started it, keeps getting rewards even after his/her demise. You gave charity and had a water well dug in a drought area - so long as people drink water from the welll, you and your soul keeps getting rewards. You planted a tree, everytime birds eat it’s fruit, you get rewards. You taught and convinced someone to give charity. Everytime the person gives charity, you get rewards. And so on ... just like a pyramid.

And the opposite is also there. You teach someone something bad and then that bad action action spreads to other people - then you will keep piling up the negative points.


2 - Sin and Mistake.
I think there is a fine line. And a loose translation will be,

A sin would be something when you knowingly and intentionally cross the boundaries set by your faith guidelines.
A mistake would be something bad you did unintentionally and you regret.

And both of these can’t be done BEFORE you are born - and hence we are born sinless.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Southern California
2,066 posts, read 2,161,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
On a broader scale I agree with you and OP. It makes sense that we are born sinless. And everyone is responsible for their own actions whether good or bad.

There are two additional items.

1 - When someone teaches and/or does something good and that teaching/action spreads to other people and their generations who carry on with doing the good action then the person and his soul who started it, keeps getting rewards even after his/her demise. You gave charity and had a water well dug in a drought area - so long as people drink water from the welll, you and your soul keeps getting rewards. You planted a tree, everytime birds eat it’s fruit, you get rewards. You taught and convinced someone to give charity. Everytime the person gives charity, you get rewards. And so on ... just like a pyramid.

And the opposite is also there. You teach someone something bad and then that bad action action spreads to other people - then you will keep piling up the negative points.

2 - Sin and Mistake.
I think there is a fine line. And a loose translation will be,

A sin would be something when you knowingly and intentionally cross the boundaries set by your faith guidelines. A mistake would be something bad you did unintentionally and you regret.

And both of these can’t be done BEFORE you are born - and hence we are born sinless.
Good post. I agree we are born sinless, but I also believe that because of genetics, we have within us the propensity to sin unto the fourth generation. So if our ancestors were sinless, that's a good thing.

The best indicator to me of a sin is how an action... whether done by me to someone or vice versa, or done by me alone... causes immediate regret, remorse or humiliation to come to my conscience.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,855,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Without evil in the world would we really know what righteousness is?...
Wouldn't an omnimax deity be able to instil 'righteousness' into his 'children' without having to give them evil? The argument that we must experience bad in order to know good is like saying that we have to comit murder or rape before we can appreciate that those to things are bad.


I'm sure we are going to get the 'God didn't want robots' excuse but that fails miserably when we are told that there is going to be no 'sin' in heaven.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:59 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,015,135 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Judaism teaches that human beings are not basically sinful. We come into the world neither carrying the burden of sin committed by our ancestors nor tainted by it. Rather, sin, chet, is the result of our human inclinations, the yetzer, which must be properly channeled. - https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...h-view-of-sin/


It is not really difficult if one desires to be a good person...
Solomon said in Ecclesiastes that no one is righteous, no one seeks after God. Not one. It was repeated by the rabbi Paul of Tarsus, who studied under the great Gamaliel.

Come to your Messiah, Richard. You can't be good on your own.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,178,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Solomon said in Ecclesiastes that no one is righteous, no one seeks after God. Not one. It was repeated by the rabbi Paul of Tarsus, who studied under the great Gamaliel.

Come to your Messiah, Richard. You can't be good on your own.

If coming to your messiah turned you into what you have become -- why would anyone in their right mind want to?
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:35 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,015,135 times
Reputation: 3584
Some people simply can't take a hint.
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:24 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,322,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009 View Post
Good post. I agree we are born sinless, but I also believe that because of genetics, we have within us the propensity to sin unto the fourth generation. So if our ancestors were sinless, that's a good thing.

The best indicator to me of a sin is how an action... whether done by me to someone or vice versa, or done by me alone... causes immediate regret, remorse or humiliation to come to my conscience.
Care to clarify how a sin is carried by one's genes and why to only 4 generations. From a biological view that makes no sense.
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