Mind and Matter (Islam, Christianity, miracles, religions)
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I give up. G4N is impervious to reason, and every exchange is a variation on a nuanced, supported point, which results in G4N responding with “nuh uh!”
Yes. But these are actually the Usual Arguments against "Macro" (as it is called) evolution, but I have never seen it demonstrated better how the argument works and what the other side says, and let others see who has the better case. It is was never about convincing an individual naysayer changing their mind.
I give up. G4N is impervious to reason, and every exchange is a variation on a nuanced, supported point, which results in G4N responding with “nuh uh!”
So if a person is asleep and dreaming they are not conscious?
He is conscious if he can be awakened. Being asleep is not the same as being unconscious. The definition again, since you are ignoring it and refusing to provide your own definition.:
"Normal Level of Consciousness
According to medical definitions, a normal level of consciousness means that a person is either awake or can be readily awakened from normal sleep.
Consciousness identifies a state in which a patient is awake, aware, alert and responsive to stimuli.
Unconsciousness identifies a state in which a patient has a deficit in awareness and responsiveness to stimuli (touch, light, sound). A person who is sleeping would not be considered unconscious, however, if waking up would result in normal consciousness."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
Well, philosophers and psychologists have been working on it. Maybe in a couple thousand years they will have something for you.
You cannot claim something exists if you cannot define it. When you use the word mind what do you mean? When you use the words conscious and consciousness, what do you mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
I didn't make up the concept. It is commonly believed, outside your little atheist world.
And scientists can't answer all your questions with controlled experiments. Sometimes we must rely on observation and experience and logic.
Commonly believed by whom, and what evidence do they have to support that belief?
What observations support your thesis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
You are couscous so that mean part of the universe is conscious. You and many other life forms have varying degrees of consciousness. That means there is a volume of the universe that is conscious. At the very least, a much larger portion than a human has it.
The many people that would say yes it has a degree of it? I haven't met one trained person in person deny it. Of course, these people are very familiar with QED and understand that we are connected at the very fundamental level of the universe. They understand that the universe and you are the same thing.
Can you show that we are not part of the universe? Can explain how it is possible that the universe is not doing you? Can you show us where humans are not part of a larger more complex system?
No, the universe and I are not the same thing. I am but an extremely ... extremely small part of the universe. Other humans (and other animals which can be conscious) are just other small parts - discrete parts, separate from one another. There is no collective consciousness. If there were, I should be conscious of things happening all over the universe.
Science is just a method of making observations and trying to figure out causality. It is something that all people have always tried to do. It is difficult and has limitations.
(And by the way, technology and science are not the same thing. The great advances in technology don't reflect great advances in scientific understanding. You can use electricity without having a real understanding of it, for example.)
We can't rely on science to give us the answers we want or need when we want or need them. Some things will never be answered by science, others might be answered eventually but we can't predict when.
And now we have organized scientific establishments, or Big Science, which is influenced by money and connected to powerful institutions. Very often what we call "science" is actually Big Science, which is just as trustworthy as big corporations or big governments.
Do you trust science when you ride in a motor vehicle? Cross a bridge? Fly in an airplane? Use your computer?
Technology is a tool for advancing scientific knowledge. Just look at what the Hubble telescope has literally shown us about the universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
I never said definitions don't matter.
You just refuse to provide them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
There are certain changes within a species that the species is capable of producing, and these can be selected from. A species of moth might have the potential to be light or dark, and the color of its habitat will select one or the other. That kind of change was assumed to be what happens in evolution in general. It is not.
Every kind of change created by artificial breeding brought out one or another potential of the species. Artificial breeding has NEVER created anything new.
If you breed dogs for intelligence, for example, a ceiling will be reached at the limit of the normal range for dog intelligence. And the same goes for any trait you breed any species for.
How is the peppered moth not evidence of evolution in response to natural selection?
How about ring species? Do you even know what a species is?
The reason no one can observe speciation in mammals is because it takes so long to happen.
What are those energetic vibrating bits vibrating in?
Pasta sauce. Mystical and Supernatural Pasta Sauce. What else could it be? It's truly a mystery how His Noodly Appendages get everywhere and how all of the reality cries out of his obvious deliciousness and noodly qualities!
My sentience doesn't exist as vibrating bits of 1-dimensional strings, but the noodly higher sentience does!
Or ...? And it does not involve improbable intelligent entities.
Then how else would an improbable intelligent entity be proposed to have a materially independent existence these days? And who else would I ask for immortality from? Surely quantum foam isn't sentient enough to do what I ask or to bargain with me so that I and those who align with me can get immortality at some (one of infinite) untestable time in some (one of infinite) untestable way.
Nobody could ever beat Eusebius for denial - not even C34. or was it 45?
...but he used exactly the same arguments regarding mico - macro. Nor is Eusebius/Omega posting any more. Odd that each time Eusebius/ Omega or any other of his alias' disappears, another, with the same arguments and posting style, takes his place.
Pasta sauce. Mystical and Supernatural Pasta Sauce. What else could it be? It's truly a mystery how His Noodly Appendages get everywhere and how all of the reality cries out of his obvious deliciousness and noodly qualities!
My sentience doesn't exist as vibrating bits of 1-dimensional strings, but the noodly higher sentience does!
Truly a masterly summing up of the mysteries that are unknown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
...but he used exactly the same arguments regarding mico - macro. Nor is Eusebius/Omega posting any more. Odd that each time Eusebius/ Omega or any other of his alias' disappears, another, with the same arguments and posting style, takes his place.
I cannot wait to shoot down the next one
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Nobody could ever beat Eusebius for denial - not even C34. or was it 45?
