Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Which is the same thing as inventing God.
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That's what it comes down to. "Why do you suppose that there is a god at all?" The answer has to be "Who made everything, then?" This is the last (and often first) resort of the Theist. No wonder the battle over a Prime Mover is such an important one. It is because theist apologetics works totally on the
a Priori assumption that a god exists until 100% disproven down to the last nanoparticle demonstrated in yore face proof. And even then they'd say it wasn't proof.
Yes - this is even how debating the evidence works. All the invention, misrepresentation, 'Nobody knows' and downright disproof is irrelevant because they Know a God exists On Faith. And that depends heavily on the existence of a creator -god as a given.
I debated with one theist who tried the reversal of burden of proof which was that not assuming the existence of God was a claim as much as claiming that a god existed. Logically is wasn't and he got irritated and aggressive (as they do
) but this logically invalid assumption of a god to begin with is the basis of all theist apologetics. It is the basis for valuing the Bible even if it isn't true, which is why they just do not Get the 'other books are equally useful' rebuttal. Then they field 'Basis of western civilisation', does a lot of nice good, especially to nice hobbittses (1), and really "It makes us feel good" when you get down to it is really all irrelevant, but they do not Get that it is all irrelevant because these are just window -dressin for an
a priori Godfaith.
(1) it is remarkable how well LoR works as a Reversed Christian metaphor, with Mordor as Religion, the Orcs as Sheeple that it uncaringly throws into the mincer to serve it's own power, Saruman as the Genesis -literalist Apologists who misuse, distort and corrupt knowledge to support their own power but are a claw of the hand of Mordor, as Theoden says.
Gollum as ..just the crafty atheist -hater...without even Sarumans' misused mechanics...just craftiness, malice and sneaking...
(but....with the chance to turn, repent and be saved there..and even now and again, they get near losing their malice - then they thrust it away and return (5) to spitting accusations, snarling abuse and muttering curses... and when i see them, I do pity them (2) And the land of the Rohirrim (the UK) was won by the winning of Internet Porn, Sex on TV and the Life of Brian as the greatest UK comedy film ever. Now comes the great Battle of our time, Minas Tirith: a metaphor, not of Constantinople, as Tolkien had in mind, but a metaphor for America. And you know who the Nine iNazgul are...don't you?
And we Rohirrim, Angles, Welch, Hibernians and Scrotes, too, I hope, are riding to the rescue....
And a Rep to anyone who can find an atheist analogy for the army of the dead (4).
(2) I Knowed there was a (2) in there somewhere. ..Right in the early days, one of my messages to the atheist - hating Christian apologist was.."I'm sorry. I think this food would do you good, if you'd just try..but I suppose you can't even try yet" But of course, they say the same about us! Which is what Tolkien was doing of course. No -one will ever tell me that Gollum was not a metaphor for the ones who rejected religion.
(3) Damn - even Orcs ready ro fight civil war at the drop of a hat work as rival denominations...down to their masters always trying to sow dissent amongst the Doubting side and projecting their own mutual distrust onto Men, women (oh yes), Dwarves, Ents, Hobbits, Elves and a whole mobble of unherdable cats....
(4) I was thinking of the Minds of the past ..but I'm tempted by the Nones..who really should fight for us, but refuse....but if they ever do...Mordor is finished.
(5) Sue me. And, yes, like Gollum, they have to follow the one who holds the Ring, because they desire it and hate it but cannot cease trying to snatch it, even though it would destroy them.
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