Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Were all describing/learning how the universe works to best of our abilities. No one needs to one-up anyone...we all live in the yellow submarine.
For the most part true.
but shouldn't we weight claims as valid, more valid, or equal based on content and not perspective?
it doesn't have to be in a "one up mode". but I am not perfect. when I see people railing on others with nonsense, i tend to hit them back with the rigor they hit others with. i don't care if they are atheist or theist. i don't care because i don't side with atheist or theist, I side with people.
Its a fault of mine that I am working on,and failing.
good people are good people. I am just "atheist". I do not use a statement of belief about god, yes god or no god, to judge people.
but shouldn't we weight claims as valid, more valid, or equal based on content and not perspective?
it doesn't have to be in a "one up mode". but I am not perfect. when I see people railing on others with nonsense, i tend to hit them back with the rigor they hit others with. i don't care if they are atheist or theist. i don't care because i don't side with atheist or theist, I side with people.
Its a fault of mine that I am working on,and failing.
good people are good people. I am just "atheist". I do not use a statement of belief about god, yes god or no god, to judge people.
Unfortunately, egos can get in the way as we are traveling along to see the wizard or at least to see what's behind the wizard's curtain.
Better understanding. And i agree that agnostics at most are searching for better understanding, not trying to score a win for, essentially confirming their bias. But at worst, that is exactly what they do.
Let's not overdo it here. Most of the people I have met who express being agnostic actually put little or no thought into it. It's just something they decided almost by whim since they don't know. Most of them whom I've talked to may have an open mind, but they're making no effort to come to any conclusions.
Let's not overdo it here. Most of the people I have met who express being agnostic actually put little or no thought into it. It's just something they decided almost by whim since they don't know. Most of them whom I've talked to may have an open mind, but they're making no effort to come to any conclusions.
Doesn't agnosticism, by definition, mean that one doesn't believe it's possible to come to hard and fast conclusions, metaphysically?
Doesn't agnosticism, by definition, mean that one doesn't believe it's possible to come to hard and fast conclusions, metaphysically?
I'd emphasize the word hard.
But again, my premise is that most agnostics are just the type who say something along the lines of, "I don't know. I'm open minded". But are not people who are trying to come to any decision about belief.
Let's not overdo it here. Most of the people I have met who express being agnostic actually put little or no thought into it. It's just something they decided almost by whim since they don't know. Most of them whom I've talked to may have an open mind, but they're making no effort to come to any conclusions.
Good point. I suppose that with 'agnostic' as well as 'atheist', we are talking about the huge majority that don't think much about it and just either say 'I don't see it' and are atheist or 'I think there is something' and are 'agnostic'. These people are the raw material of conversion and deconversion. Atheist and not -sure believer (which is what 'agnostic' surely means) are ripe for deconversion as they have never thought about it and are wide open for one of the carefully constructed conversion -packages. And they can sound very convincing. And one really has to be familiar with the arguments to see through them. Or, as an alternative, listen to a presentation that shows them.
That's what we do. Now the 'agnostics' (irreligious theists) I mainly refer to are those who have thought about it, perhaps having drifted away from religion to no -religion theism, or perhaps into it from atheism.
All of those who have not thrown in with religion and jammed their fingers in their ears are the brethren and system of atheism, even thouse who (regrettably) resent atheism because of this belief in a god of some kind, or have an attachment to religion, the idea of Jesus or the Bible or, as seems not uncommon, an indoctrinated loathing of anything 'liberal' which (with some reason) they see atheism as being.
One kind may indeed still be searching to firm up whether the god -claim is credible or not. It's a very relevant 'seard' for apoilogetics of both sides. The other kind, with a dislike of atheism itself, will indeed be looking for confirmation of theis bias, using any argument they come up with.
They are an important part of the debate too, as their hostility threatens to undermine the whole atheist agenda to take over the world and turn it into pointy - eared robots..
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-08-2018 at 03:27 PM..
But again, my premise is that most agnostics are just the type who say something along the lines of, "I don't know. I'm open minded". But are not people who are trying to come to any decision about belief.
But that's just my opinion.
You could be right.
I might call myself an agnostic agnostic. I'm not sure it's possible to know that it's impossible to know the nature of our reality, but I know it's beyond my pay grade. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread (albeit, I think he meant it as an insult) I'm a person who is pragmatic. My beliefs have changed drastically in the last decade or so, but in the last few years, I've reached conclusions that make sense to me, and also allow me to live more optimistically and happily then I did in the past. That's important to me, so unless someone gives me really good reasons to think differently, I'm sticking with what I know works for me.
I might call myself an agnostic agnostic. I'm not sure it's possible to know that it's impossible to know the nature of our reality, but I know it's beyond my pay grade. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread (albeit, I think he meant it as an insult) I'm a person who is pragmatic. My beliefs have changed drastically in the last decade or so, but in the last few years, I've reached conclusions that make sense to me, and also allow me to live more optimistically and happily then I did in the past. That's important to me, so unless someone gives me really good reasons to think differently, I'm sticking with what I know works for me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
