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Obviously I cant speak for the leaders of the Southern Baptist convention. I am pointing out that other organizations, Charleston, the university of NC, Delaware, Georgetown, etc. have made formal apologies for slavery because slavery existed in our country, as it did in the rest of the world, for a time.
Christians are human and humans are fallible, they are sinners, they are immoral. At some point in our history all groups engaged in some aspect of slavery.
Again I believe you have some misguided notion that because one identifies as a follower of Christ they must be infallible, above reproach, and without sin. A religious organization is no better than its members.
Personally I think it is ridiculous and yes without sincerity for an individual or an organization to apologize for something that happen before they were even born for which they had no part in nor control over.
No, the misguided notion here is yours. I don't expect christians to be any better people than any other group of people...and heaven knows (to coin a phrase) that they're not any better and prove that every single day.
You get very close to my point when you say that, "A religious organization is no better than its members". But people in a religious organization ought to be better than other people...IF all the promises of christianity are valid. Clearly they're not. A valid religious organization ought to lead, but instead, in regard to slavery, many of those religious organizations led...in the wrong direction.
I think you've forgotten why I became involved in this particular part of this thread. A poster basically said that we should just forget about the unpleasant past. No. Not when it comes to things like slavery, the Holocaust, the virtual elimination of the American Indian, the reason for the beginnings of the world wars, war crimes, etc. Because all of things are just one step away from happening again. "Never forget". That kind of christian wants to play over and over again the warm, fuzzy stories of miracles and wants to walk in Jesus' footsteps (until they step into the voting booth), but also wants to overlook the ugly history of christianity. Well, some of us are not going to let that happen.
And the reason it's not "ridiculous and...without sincerity" for such organizations to apologize for something that happened before they were born or had no control over is twofold: first because this nation has not yet truly faced its racist past. If we had, we wouldn't see things like Charlottesville, which is seemingly accepted by an awfully lot of christians who, like the other poster, just want to forget the unpleasantness. Most of my friends are christians. And the way some of them talk about the refugees that come to our southern border is despicable. I'm not talking about just opening the border...build the wall for all I care...I'm talking about the words all too many christians use in talking about those refugees. The words I hear are not the words of christ. What we have in this country is a thin veneer of christianity, not actually living christianity. The second reason it is appropriate for organizations to apologize for what their organizations did in the somewhat distant past is because the people in those organizations belong to those organizations because they revere the history of those organizations. You can't honestly live in the past (of an organization) unless you live in ALL of that organization's past. If you lay out the religious organization you belong to, and dwell on the good stuff, but shield your eyes to the bad stuff, than you're worth nothing as a member of that organization. There's a lot of ego within christian churches. Even stuff that members should take great pride in...but only if they also take responsibility for the bad stuff.
Those people being apologized to have not been wronged.
I'm reminded of a faculty meeting at the school where I was principal, when the teaching staff was getting heavily criticized (and appropriately so) for many parents for not doing enough for the underachievers. And the teachers wanted to discuss it. And several teachers kept pointing to three or four teachers who were at the top of their profession in that regard. And after listening to the discussion for about fifteen minutes, I interrupted and said (paraphrased), "Listen to what you keep doing. You keep talking about how wonderfully Herb, and Violet, and Betty work with the underachievers...the same three names over and over...but you don't talk about what YOU are doing. And that's because YOU are not doing much". And this is a good example of how people will heap praise on themselves through praising what is actually being done by others. We see this on the national stage all the time. I'll hear people rave about the wonderful deeds by our forefathers, and the soldiers who fought in the two world wars, etc., and then when I say, "And what have you done for our nation?", all I get are confused, blank stares. There's too much taking credit for what people in America's past did, and not enough taking responsibility for what people in America's past did.
Some people will cry racism and pull the race card over anything, It's hard to take people whining racist seriously anymore…
If you were paying attention, you'd easily see the widespread nature of racism these days, inside and outside the church. It's even whipped up and on heavy display from the highest position in the US.
It's hard to take people who ignore racism seriously anymore.
If you were paying attention, you'd easily see the widespread nature of racism these days, inside and outside the church. It's even whipped up and on heavy display at the federal level too.
It's hard to take people who ignore racism seriously anymore.
I'm reminded of a faculty meeting at the school where I was principal, when the teaching staff was getting heavily criticized (and appropriately so) for many parents for not doing enough for the underachievers. And the teachers wanted to discuss it. And several teachers kept pointing to three or four teachers who were at the top of their profession in that regard. And after listening to the discussion for about fifteen minutes, I interrupted and said (paraphrased), "Listen to what you keep doing. You keep talking about how wonderfully Herb, and Violet, and Betty work with the underachievers...the same three names over and over...but you don't talk about what YOU are doing. And that's because YOU are not doing much". And this is a good example of how people will heap praise on themselves through praising what is actually being done by others. We see this on the national stage all the time. I'll hear people rave about the wonderful deeds by our forefathers, and the soldiers who fought in the two world wars, etc., and then when I say, "And what have you done for our nation?", all I get are confused, blank stares. There's too much taking credit for what people in America's past did, and not enough taking responsibility for what people in America's past did.
what have those parents done to help this nation? when are the parents going to give their children a pencil? safe home? and food?
The best indicator of how well a set of parents are doing their jobs? Just check how many pencils the students have.
when are those parents going to step up and do their job.
If you were paying attention, you'd easily see the widespread nature of racism these days, inside and outside the church. It's even whipped up and on heavy display from the highest position in the US.
It's hard to take people who ignore racism seriously anymore.
No, the misguided notion here is yours. I don't expect christians to be any better people than any other group of people...and heaven knows (to coin a phrase) that they're not any better and prove that every single day.
You get very close to my point when you say that, "A religious organization is no better than its members". But people in a religious organization ought to be better than other people...IF all the promises of christianity are valid. Clearly they're not. A valid religious organization ought to lead, but instead, in regard to slavery, many of those religious organizations led...in the wrong direction.
I think you've forgotten why I became involved in this particular part of this thread. A poster basically said that we should just forget about the unpleasant past. No. Not when it comes to things like slavery, the Holocaust, the virtual elimination of the American Indian, the reason for the beginnings of the world wars, war crimes, etc. Because all of things are just one step away from happening again. "Never forget". That kind of christian wants to play over and over again the warm, fuzzy stories of miracles and wants to walk in Jesus' footsteps (until they step into the voting booth), but also wants to overlook the ugly history of christianity. Well, some of us are not going to let that happen.
And the reason it's not "ridiculous and...without sincerity" for such organizations to apologize for something that happened before they were born or had no control over is twofold: first because this nation has not yet truly faced its racist past. If we had, we wouldn't see things like Charlottesville, which is seemingly accepted by an awfully lot of christians who, like the other poster, just want to forget the unpleasantness. Most of my friends are christians. And the way some of them talk about the refugees that come to our southern border is despicable. I'm not talking about just opening the border...build the wall for all I care...I'm talking about the words all too many christians use in talking about those refugees. The words I hear are not the words of christ. What we have in this country is a thin veneer of christianity, not actually living christianity. The second reason it is appropriate for organizations to apologize for what their organizations did in the somewhat distant past is because the people in those organizations belong to those organizations because they revere the history of those organizations. You can't honestly live in the past (of an organization) unless you live in ALL of that organization's past. If you lay out the religious organization you belong to, and dwell on the good stuff, but shield your eyes to the bad stuff, than you're worth nothing as a member of that organization. There's a lot of ego within christian churches. Even stuff that members should take great pride in...but only if they also take responsibility for the bad stuff.
Your entitled to your opinion. I will stick with mine in that we are not responsible for the sins of our fathers.
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