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Well for one thing, the OP claims that a large number of nones were atheists with zero evidence to back up that claim. When I did some research on the study, it turns out many nones are Christians or believers who simply just don't want to associate with a denomination anymore. Atheists are a minority.
Also, the OP is distorting the truth by only showing one side of the reality. Ok, sure Nones are growing, but according to this article, evangelicals are NOT dropping.
No one on this forum claimed that any denomination was going extinct. If they did please n9t the post number. Just one more of your straw man claims. Using the data from the link you posted it shows a downward trend guessing about a 5% decrease in the last 5 or so years and nearly a 25% decrease from the peak in the early 90s. That article also claims that the numbers are not that bad because evangelicals will be coming back. So even the link you gave accepts that numbers are decreasing.
And in your research what are the nones who are not associated Christians? How large is the minority of atheists? Will you share your research?
And why link to an article that does not support you?
I did skip through the Blather, somewhat, but I only saw a claim that 'millions' are joining the churches of the Holy Babble. If so, They must be drawing from the other charismatic churches, because the graph does not seem to show that they are coming from anywhere else. Assuming that the claim of mass joining is true and not wishful thinking.
What do you even mean? They are all over the graph. So the graph itself is unreliable to begin with. You can't measure evolving churches on a graph over time like that.
What do you even mean? They are all over the graph. So the graph itself is unreliable to begin with. You can't measure evolving churches on a graph over time like that.
Please enlighten 7s on how to properly show changes in religion over time? Is it possible?
What do you even mean? They are all over the graph. So the graph itself is unreliable to begin with. You can't measure evolving churches on a graph over time like that.
At least they have data. You don't seem to refute the data with anything other than your own personal, highly biased opinion.
Perhaps we should look at what the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. says is happening:
Quote:
For a variety of reasons, fewer and fewer Americans now have a grasp of the fundamentals of orthodox, biblical teachings, says Mr. Walker, director of policy studies for the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. Like many who keep attuned to the country’s religious landscape, he notes, too, the dramatic rise of the so-called “nones,” especially among the young, who may believe in God, but have begun to refuse to identify with a particular religious group.
“They grew up in a nominal Christian culture, where it’s no longer of a cultural or social benefit to identify as a Christian,” he says. “To add to that is, there’s often not only no social prestige to gain, there’s also social prestige to lose, if you say you are a Christian in our society.”
It’s one piece of a cultural shift that has begun to affect even the nation’s most vibrant religious groups. The Southern Baptist Convention, one of the more conservative evangelical Protestant denominations, has lost more than a million members over the past decade. Still the largest single Protestant group in the nation with more than 15 million members, its network of churches nevertheless haven’t baptized so few a number of people in 70 years, the denomination’s research shows.
----------------
Today, however, there are signs that many of the same trends that decimated mainline Protestantism over the past few decades are now at work among evangelical denominations as well. According to a massive study by the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) released in September, the number of white evangelical Protestants fell from about 23 percent of the US population in 2006 to 17 percent in 2016.
The finding, based on a survey of more than 100,000 Americans, “provides solid evidence of a new, second wave of white Christian decline that is occurring among white evangelical Protestants just over the last decade in the US,” said Robert Jones, head of the PRRI, after the study was released. “Prior to 2008, white evangelical Protestants seemed to be exempt from the waves of demographic change and disaffiliation that were eroding the membership bases of white mainline Protestants and white Catholics.”
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2017/1010/Amid-Evangelical-decline-growing-split-between-young-Christians-and-church-elders
Fewer than 11% of evangelical protestants are under the age of 30, states the article. It goes on to give the testimony of a young woman whose father and brother are very conservative, politically active protestants. She is bucking the trend while still a believer.
What bothers her most? The marriage between evangelicalism and the GOP, and the increasingly rigid moral instruction from the pulpit. The same article quotes her:
Quote:
“At the root of evangelicalism there’s the call to evangelism, spreading the gospel, and I firmly believe that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life and that he put his church on Earth as a means to bringing other people into the family,” she says.
But she’s come to reject the deep political associations Evangelicals have forged with the Republican Party, and she feels alienated from the general GOP distrust of Islam and efforts to curtail immigration.
If someone wants to be known as a person who drives people AWAY from belief in God, just become a "bible-believing, anti-gay, anti-immigration" pro Repu---- like several on this thread.
They right wing religionists on here can hardly point fingers at the SBC, a denomination I left nearly 30 years ago as it regressed from evangelism into moralism. I never heard a sermon against gays or Muslims or anyone else from age 16 to 40. I am a licensed SBC minister. I attended an SBC college and studied Bible when they actually allowed "liberal" Bible professors to teach. Then a certain political party literally designed a takeover of the SBC--and boy were they successful. Jesus became not even second place as politics began to reign with a political party preying on the fears of people who don't know their Bible and never will.
Do you have such an immature mind that the only conclusion you come up with is an atheist is a person who hates God?
Well he does claim to be only 14 years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Fine. But don't expect to get the best from people like Jeff or myself if we are the only remaining Christians posting in this thread anymore, and we are constantly outnumbered and on the defensive.
Well go and gather your forces in the Christianity forum and organise an attack. Let's see how much support you can muster amongst other Christians. Have you ever thought that the reason that you are the only two here is because all the other Christians don't want to be associated with your 'Lying for Jesus'?
Well go and gather your forces in the Christianity forum and organise an attack. Let's see how much support you can muster amongst other Christians. Have you ever thought that the reason that you are the only two here is because all the other Christians don't want to be associated with your 'Lying for Jesus'?
I notice Ozzy didn’t include me as a “christian,” for which I am grateful. I have no desire to put Scripture ahead of Jesus (and according to those Scriptures Jesus felt the same way). That’s why you are able to spot a clear distinction between “Bible-believers,”(euphemism for Bible idolaters) as they like to term themselves, and Jesus followers. They see Jesus as shaped by Scripture, while we believe Jesus reshaped Scripture.
jeff is as blind as a bat and loves his lack of sight and insight, whereas I’m not certain that Ozzy is more than a genuinely confused bibliolator who might get rescued if he falls into knowing Jesus.
“
Quote:
Using the Bible as a magic book, claiming it is without any human error or human mistakes, using your own canon within the canon while claiming to value each verse equally, all of that is not loving the Bible, it’s loving your own reading or interpretation of the Bible.”
–BRIAN QUINCY NEWCOMB, pastor of a United Church of Christ and music critic.
Why? You clearly ignored it the first time I did, brick wall.
So once again. He misrepresented atheism. Do you understand that, yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Enough with the bold talk.
Fingers out of your ears when I am talking to you. And stop with the la la las.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You just can't stand that a highly educated man who won an award exposes the illogical nature of atheism.
Except he did not do that, he misrepresented atheism. As several people have told you, and you could verify this for yourself by reading (V E R Y . S L O W L Y) your own link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
So all you can do is talk trash about the award or say, well he is just one man.
A fact is trash talk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Why on earth should I value your opinion over his?
A honest, intelligent person would evaluate his claim for himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Atheists are too swollen with pride to admit they are wrong.
That big bang in Germany was my irony meter exploding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The Templeton Foundation funds the Pew Research Center and yet your ilk has absolutely NO problem using Pew research studies whenever it is negative towards us.
I was talking about the opinion pieces the Templeton publishes. The Pew report may be funded by the Templeton foundation, but the studies are not influenced by them. That is the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Just shows how atheists are just a bunch of flaming hypocrites.
You like using that phrase after misrepresenting atheists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You'll accept ANYTHING without question if it suits an anti-Christian argument.
More BS. I question everything that is important. It is not my problem your evidence does not agree with your assertions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
But when it doesn't, oh suddenly the source is not credible.
More BS. We are not making an excuse, we are pointing out a fact. The Templeton Foundation only publishes opinion pieces supporting religion or against atheism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Yet you don't even bother to explain what he got wrong. Typical hollow bold talk.
You always make this claim after we have explained what is wrong. Either you do not understand the explanation or you are being dishonest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Science can't give people hope and meaning to life.
Really? the scientific findings behind medicine alone says otherwise..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Science did not heal my friend from late stage thyroid cancer.
How selfish of you to ignore the many people with cancers it HAS helped. And once again with the stupid 1% beats the 99% argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Science can not defeat death.
And?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Your scientific fact is only as good as until another new discovery invalidates the old.
And? It still works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Sure it is. You have put all your faith into fallible man.
No, we use evidence. You ignore it because it disagrees with you man made BS.
I notice Ozzy didn’t include me as a “christian,” for which I am grateful. I have no desire to put Scripture ahead of Jesus (and according to those Scriptures Jesus felt the same way). That’s why you are able to spot a clear distinction between “Bible-believers,”(euphemism for Bible idolaters) as they like to term themselves, and Jesus followers. They see Jesus as shaped by Scripture, while we believe Jesus reshaped Scripture.
jeff is as blind as a bat and loves his lack of sight and insight, whereas I’m not certain that Ozzy is more than a genuinely confused bibliolator who might get rescued if he falls into knowing Jesus.
“ –BRIAN QUINCY NEWCOMB, pastor of a United Church of Christ and music critic.
Thank you. it is sometimes overlooked (I think) that my old China, Dresden, is a God - believer. Even Christian. We've never discussed it as it isn't something to argue about. I have known and respected his posts a long time. We don't always agree, but we can discuss it amicably. The sort of Theists I can always do business with. I can't do much business with people who deny what the figures total up to or what the contract actually says.
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