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The Comforter (Holy Spirit) sent in Jesus Christ's name is our authority who will guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." The words "written in ink" and the "precepts and doctrines of men" derived from them are NOT our authority. God hates no one. God IS agape love. There is no place in God for hate. Hate is a human weakness that Jesus refused to allow to arise in Him even through scourging and crucifixion. He loved and forgave even His torturers and murderers. Hate is anathema to Christ's Gospel and message of reconciliation and love.
The Scripture I quoted clearly shows otherwise. Nevertheless, the fact that God is love (1 John 4:8) is very true. Jesus is the Bridegroom, and His church is the bride. How can a man love all women just as much as he loves his bride? It's a particular love, not a generic one. Otherwise, if Jesus loved everyone, He would never say to anyone that He never knew them (Matthew 7:23). His bride, for which He laid down His life, will forever sing His praises!
The Scripture I quoted clearly shows otherwise. Nevertheless, the fact that God is love (1 John 4:8) is very true. Jesus is the Bridegroom, and His church is the bride. How can a man love all women just as much as he loves his bride? It's a particular love, not a generic one. Otherwise, if Jesus loved everyone, He would never say to anyone that He never knew them (Matthew 7:23). His bride, for which He laid down His life, will forever sing His praises!
Writing on a page shows nothing. Certainly not "the fact" you claim.
Well, the Bible states that Hell is a permanent separation of God. It does not say every lasting torture. Hell is the second death.
I am wondering which Scripture or Scriptures you have in mind ________________________
I never heard hell is the second death, and wonder how biblical hell can be the second death.
I read at Rev. 20:13-14 that everyone in biblical hell will be ' delivered up ' out of hell.
To me ' delivered up ' means resurrected out of hell.
Then, it is emptied-out hell which is cast vacant into that symbolic 'second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
Even sinner Satan ends up in ' second death ' (Rev 21:8) Not in any hell.
Jesus destroys Satan as per Hebrews 2:14 B
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for: destruction
Or, as Psalm 92:7 says the wicked will be ' destroyed forever '.
Besides, if the Bible's hell was a permanent place then dead Jesus would still be in hell as per Acts 2:27.
8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
That verse is what is referred to.
Heaven is the opposite according to scripture and will live forever in the next life with the presence of the Lord.
Other translations translate "everlasting" destruction by the presence of the Lord, which rather implies annihilation anyways. As far as I know Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that all men will spend eternity with God and that the presence of God is what will torment the sinners, this is the very opposite believe of yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Good question. While disbelief in Eternal Torture is a step we atheists would praise, it's a fair question- where in the Bible (aside from the "Interpretation" needed to have a Hell -belief at all) is this 'Hell' declared to be 'separation from God'? While it would suit atheism very well to not have the question asked, it would be dishonest not to say that it is a fair question.
As an atheist why do you bother? I made the experience that atheists oppose universalism as much as do traditionalists since the doctrine of hell is their main argument against Christianity.
Why don't you see the other side of the coin? Enjoy the moments at present without any worries. If you start bothering about the things when you are alive itself there is no point right.
Other translations translate "everlasting" destruction by the presence of the Lord, which rather implies annihilation anyways. As far as I know Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that all men will spend eternity with God and that the presence of God is what will torment the sinners, this is the very opposite believe of yours.
As an atheist why do you bother? I made the experience that atheists oppose universalism as much as do traditionalists since the doctrine of hell is their main argument against Christianity.
As an atheist it makes our job so much easier when Christians tell each other that none of you know what you're talking about. We just have to come along and sweep up the bits, as it were.
It makes no sense because we are all born into circumstances out of our control. So let's say someone is born of athiest parents and is abused horribly during their childhood, then grows up violating every one of God's commandments, then what - they are punished for eternity?
Makes no sense, this whole heaven/hell crap - it's a fairy tale.
It makes no sense. Plenty of the irreligious are raised that way.
I remember when my kids were young, they would share the school bus with non-religious students, who would poke fun at God and Jesus, call Him all sorts of names and profanities.
But that is all they knew.
Should they burn in Hell for eternity, if they never discover Jesus as adults?
I think not, and God should give them all the benefit of the doubt.
All who know the true God knows its fact. The true God set before all--Life or Death( Deuteronomy 30:19) both will be everlasting. 99% are being mislead as we speak, minimium. Same as in Noahs day. Jesus even compared the last days to Noahs day-99.9% were mislead then.
So the Bible says no such thing. Instead you have to appeal to faith. Don't you care that your religion makes a liar of you?
As an atheist it makes our job so much easier when Christians tell each other that none of you know what you're talking about. We just have to come along and sweep up the bits, as it were.
Why is it your job as an atheist to bother about Christianity at all, why do you care? Do you also care about Islam and Hinduism?
Why is it your job as an atheist to bother about Christianity at all, why do you care? Do you also care about Islam and Hinduism?
Why is it that christians knock on my door, leave pamphlets, send ads in the mail, have billboards? Why do you care?
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