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That's a False Analogy, like the many others you've used.
You know, the amusing thing about your god -- when did modern humans arise? What 125,000 years ago? -- is that it took your god 125,000 years to come to the conclusion that we should love our neighbor as ourselves.
Your god is soooo unimpressive and uninspiring.
"Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind," by Yuval Noah Harari
A bit more impressive and inspiring if you ask me...
White noise? White noise is when you lecture others no matter how eloquently you do it.
Interesting. Hadn't heard that definition before. I'm more familiar with this one from the dictionary...
white noise noun
Definition of white noise
1a: a heterogeneous mixture of sound waves extending over a wide frequency range
— compare PINK NOISE
b: a constant background noise
especially : one that drowns out other sounds
2: meaningless or distracting commotion, hubbub, or chatter
Per the discussion about so many of these comments and threads and no doubt the addition of your definition fits too, ala the many "styles" I was referring to...
Still, just take what you wish, focus on what you will and leave the rest. Simple as that for me anyway...
I suspect that you are getting confused. We agree that a thing (Fact) is either true or not. Human constructs like art, music, politics, ethics and -even tastes in food, are personal to the individual (or indeed groups who are trained in a cultural preference..which they to often see as the only True preference) even though the artefacts to which such preferences are directed have an independent existence, true enough (that point is a red herring).
So we seem to agree on that.
So what about this argument that personal preference is a matter of faith? This is where the broad application of 'Faith' can cause confusion. We do have a certain faith (rather in the sense of 'Let's hope it doesn't go wrong' when we start our car. But this isn't the 'Faith in the existence of things that have no decent evidence for them. Quite a different thing altogether; which is why 'belief' (with the tag of 'based on actual experience' is attached (1) so when we are talking about tastes in music, personal preference is really what it's all about. There is very often a debate about 'which is best'. And they are somewhat divertingly circular. I like This and so it's best and anything else is wrong so your tastes are somehow wrong. There is a Lot of bias in musical discussion, (as I know from the youthful know -it -all wrangles of the modernists vs. the traditionalists (which cold become political in time..in the Prom. regulars queues) and this can approach and even overlap with 'Faith'.
So while personal preference about Things that are known to exist is Not to be equated with faith in the existence of things Not known to exist, there is a lot of similarity in the mindset, and indeed a heap of overlap.
(1) which of course leads into personal experience of things like dreams, answered prayers OOB's, messages from aliens, the sacredness of condensation from holy statues. The things (or experiences) may be real, but the conclusions about them are Faith.
You really do have the "patience of a saint" and a true faith in the impossible, but after what I think is about attempt #97 at this point, comes a time...
Your comment reminds me of a thread I've been tempted to start for awhile now, as I have noticed either lack of interest, casual interest, lots of interest or even maybe an infatuation with certain subjects that may or may not relate to how we define ourselves as individuals.
Thread title; How do we define ourselves most?
Is it by way of our religion? Our culture? Our community? Our family? Our job? Our lifestyle? Perhaps all the above? If so, to what extent one thing over the other? What is most "relevant to their lives" as you ask. All to say, some people seem "tuned in" to one's religion above all else while others not so much. To whatever the degree, we tend to define or represent who we are accordingly.
More into Radiohead than Perry Como when it comes to music...
I'm not sure starting such a thread would be very productive since it is very much a personal thing.
You really do have the "patience of a saint" and a true faith in the impossible, but after what I think is about attempt #97 at this point, comes a time...
I very much enjoy discussions with Trans, and that holds true for many many years over dozens of different threads. I find his discourse to be intelligent, thoughtful, practical, and thorough. He is genuinely interested in the topics and there is a depth to his exploration, posts, and thought process. He really listens. He actually engages in conversation and discussion in more than a superficial or drive-by manner.
Also there are gems that surface with regards to his poetic prose which are just delightful. I particularly like his allusion to quatrains and have been smiling about that for weeks now, and his imagery of a Tolkien Elf bounding up a crumbling staircase (he says it much better) was another recent favorite of mine. I would say he is one of my favorite writers. Even on threads I don't contribute to, i look forward to reading his posts. In a newspaper i would turn to his column first. He's like a favorite columnist you just look forward to what they have to say. about anything really.
he is someone i can honestly say i would enjoy having a cup of tea together. if he lived nearby i would suggest it. if he said no way are you out of your mind, that too would make me smile and i would enjoy his writing just as much. some people you just like hearing how they express themselves, what they think about things, you just take pleasure in their company. I appreciate his thoughtful contributions and engaging conversation over many many years.
and i would spring for the tea. and a scone too. I'm partial to scones.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-19-2019 at 11:28 AM..
Your comment reminds me of a thread I've been tempted to start for awhile now, as I have noticed either lack of interest, casual interest, lots of interest or even maybe an infatuation with certain subjects that may or may not relate to how we define ourselves as individuals.
Thread title; How do we define ourselves most?
Is it by way of our religion? Our culture? Our community? Our family? Our job? Our lifestyle? Perhaps all the above? If so, to what extent one thing over the other? What is most "relevant to their lives" as you ask. All to say, some people seem "tuned in" to one's religion above all else while others not so much. To whatever the degree, we tend to define or represent who we are accordingly.
More into Radiohead than Perry Como when it comes to music...
i think it'd be a great thread topic. I'd love to see responses. i think its a great idea.
not sure where it would be placed "non romantic relationships" "philosophy" "psychology" or ???
but i would be interested to hear the topic discussed
I'm not sure starting such a thread would be very productive since it is very much a personal thing.
Why is something considered "personal" somehow to be viewed as unproductive?
How do you distinguish so much these threads are about from what we happen to share as our personal beliefs, opinions and perspectives?
In any case, I think along with much that goes into this sort of dynamic, it is interesting to note what makes a person "tick," when for some it's God and for others it's cars. How we tend to "define" ourselves in these regards and live our life accordingly. Interact with others accordingly. Fascinating differences between us for all variety of very interesting reasons. All that tends to fuel much if not all these threads tend to be about...
i think it'd be a great thread topic. I'd love to see responses. i think its a great idea.
not sure where it would be placed "non romantic relationships" "philosophy" "psychology" or ???
but i would be interested to hear the topic discussed
Especially with you, I've noticed a real concern about where a topic is discussed and usually suggesting it not be in this forum, but this topic we both find interesting has everything to do with how we feel about religion and spirituality as well. Does it not? You could probably reason just about any placement or forum...
For me, however, this topic of how we interact with one another as a result of our different faith or religion or lack thereof is of most interest, because it's more than just academic for me. More than mere philosophy or psychology. It's about the history of how Man has been able to get along or not get along in so many ways. One of the most profound ways having to do with religion. Not to mention I am more familiar with the people who comment in this forum compared to most others.
Out of time for me today in any case, but maybe tomorrow I'll further consider starting the thread. Nice to know we both find the topic of interest in any case. Until tomorrow then, cheers.
Why is something considered "personal" somehow to be viewed as unproductive?
How do you distinguish so much these threads are about from what we happen to share as our personal beliefs, opinions and perspectives?
In any case, I think along with much that goes into this sort of dynamic, it is interesting to note what makes a person "tick," when for some it's God and for others it's cars. How we tend to "define" ourselves in these regards and live our life accordingly. Interact with others accordingly. Fascinating differences between us for all variety of very interesting reasons. All that tends to fuel much if not all these threads tend to be about...
It may not be unproductive, but I'm not sure it's going to help us come to any broad-based conclusions.
In ways related to my career in education, I've been rather dedicated to civil rights. Enough so that I got to sit down one evening and be one of three or four people having a personal conversation with Julian Bond.
In other such conversations about race relations I have occasionally asked the question to a Black man: "Do you see yourself as a Black man, or a man who is Black?" Interestingly, about half the time the response has been, "What the hell are you talking about it", while the other half of the time the answer has been, "Ah, you sort of get it". The problem is, that those two disparate answers don't help me come to any conclusions about race. (And, btw, it's exactly why Barack Obama was successful in his quest for the presidency).
I think we can relate that general concept to religion as well, and it's why we so often see christian posters on here telling us who is a "real christian". They can only see one type -- their type -- as being a "real christian".
We agree that a thing (Fact) is either true or not. Human constructs like art, music, politics, ethics and -even tastes in food, are personal to the individual (or indeed groups who are trained in a cultural preference..which they to often see as the only True preference) even though the artefacts to which such preferences are directed have an independent existence, true enough (that point is a red herring).
Another way to look at it is that facts (things that are external to you) can be tested, opinions and certain types of subjective experiences (stuff that's internal to you/is "in your mind") cannot be.
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